stove insert noob needs help picking a box

[par0thead151]

I have been "set" on the jotul winterport 350 for a while, until i measured my fireplace again and found i can fit the Lopi declaration, freedom and freedom bay. those units provide more heat and are aimed for larger homes such as mine(2300 SQ ft with vaulted ceilings in the room that has the fireplace). my fireplace box is currently 21" high X 42" wide X 19" deep(it may be deeper but presently a gas insert is in there and i need toi remove that for an accurate measurement)
Im wondering if there is any reason to stay with Jotul over the Lopi?
I would like to keep the cost around 2000-3000$ for everything needed. Install might be done by myself and a friend who has done fireplace work before. i am just hesitant about doing it my self for liability reasons in the event it starts a fire.... just how "complex" is it to install a wood burning insert? i imagine if i follow directions to a T and triple check everything it should be OK for a guy who does everything else in his home to do.
below are photos of where the stove will be going. the only aesthetic concern i have is that my fireplace is raised off the ground by 8"
any insight or advice is greatly appreciated.
thanks

 

[Todd]

It looks like a gas fireplace in there now and you would have to rip the whole thing out and install a new class A chimney with proper clearances since the gas chimney isn't approved for wood burning temps. There may also be wood framing and other combustibles around that fireplace that would not accept the clearances of a wood buring insert.

 

[par0thead151]

It looks like a gas fireplace in there now and you would have to rip the whole thing out and install a new class A chimney with proper clearances since the gas chimney isn't approved for wood burning temps. There may also be wood framing and other combustibles around that fireplace that would not accept the clearances of a wood buring insert.

it was originally a wood burning fire place, the gas was added a few years after the home was built(i am the second owner of the home)
i will tear out the gas tonight and see what the real dimensions are.

 

[Scrounger]

You can do the install yourself. It isn't that hard. Lots of topics on here describing how to do it. Use the search funtion a bit. Here's a good video to get your appetite going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRauuzjI-H4

I had someone install mine and had to tear everything out and redo it. I wish he never came in the first place. I felt the same way you do. If your somewhat handy it isn't bad. Having a helper is a bonus. I did it all myself. It's just a matter of shoving the liner down the chimney and making the connection to the insert. If going with an insert you'll want a block off plate down below. Looks like you have some room in the photos of your living area. I would install a freestanding stove instead of an insert. Listening to that blower gets old especially come late January and into February.

 

[par0thead151]

i would get a free standing stove, but it would not fit the look of my home, and probably would not help resale. the insert i can remove and replace with the nat gas or normal wood style fireplace when i move.
i would love to have a free standing unit, but that will be for my next home if and when i move.

 

[par0thead151]

how do Jotul and Lopi compare brand wise? more specifically the Lopi freedom VS the Jotul winterport 350?
i have read nothing but excellent reviews for the winterport 350, but a few negative ones about the Lopi freedom... maybe it is just brand snobs trash talking the competition, or does this have some merit?

edited to add:
WOW, there is a ton of information to learn about wood burning in general and inserts!
I am beginning to price out the Jotul inserts, so far the best price i have gotten is 2800$ (tax included) for the 350, blower, shroud, and 30" of stainless piping rated to 2300F, as well as a reline of the chimney)
I was told by the sales rep that relining the chimney is a good ides to do before adding a insert, if not for safety reasons, then for efficiency as it affects the draft? is there some merit to this?

 

[summit]

both will do about the same job for you; the construction inside is pretty much the same; steel firebox, firebrick lined. The jotul looks nicer, and if you can get the 450 or 550 in there you should heat the house nicely with the open setup you have... the Declaration is a nice looking unit, but the load opening and the firebox are kinda short, making it hard to get a real good stack of wood in there. The other lopi units stick out from the fireplace opening quite a ways, so the Jotul would probably look better flush fit to the opening of the fp. One other question; is this a factory built fireplace w/ a metal chimney, or is a masonry unit?... from here it looks prefab.

 

[summit]

also, the sales guy is right; draft works better and cleaning is way more easy w/ a full run of stainless pipe to the top of the chimney.

 

[daryl]

A few things to make sure of before you buy a wood insert.You have a zero clearance wood burning firebox and some brands of insrets are not rated to be installed in ZC box. You also are not allowed to make any modifactions to the inside of that fireplace (remove refractory,cut out metal to make opening taller,lower floor or cover any vents on the ZC unit) you can remove the damper though. It is also a must to run a SS liner from top to bottom.And that presents another problem of lining up flue outlet of the stove with the SS liner coming down the chimney.It may be flexible liner but it does not make bends and go back to level without taking up some room.They make offset adpt. for the inserts but they also add height to the insert and can cause drafting problems.I am not trying to be negative but these are the things that make for a safe and a good performing insert. I have installed wood stoves and inserts for 20 years and its all in the planning get it right the first time and evrybody well be happy. Best of luck!

 

[par0thead151]

also, the sales guy is right; draft works better and cleaning is way more easy w/ a full run of stainless pipe to the top of the chimney.

with the tax credit, the Jotul 350 will cost me just under 2000$ when all is said and done.
and the guy who quoted me that is the sales guy who is closest to me and the one who would throw in the chimney lining as well.
i will tear out the nat gas insert tonight and see if the 450 will fit.
the fireplace is masonry lined.

 

[par0thead151]

A few things to make sure of before you buy a wood insert.You have a zero clearance wood burning firebox and some brands of insrets are not rated to be installed in ZC box. You also are not allowed to make any modifactions to the inside of that fireplace (remove refractory,cut out metal to make opening taller,lower floor or cover any vents on the ZC unit) you can remove the damper though. It is also a must to run a SS liner from top to bottom.And that presents another problem of lining up flue outlet of the stove with the SS liner coming down the chimney.It may be flexible liner but it does not make bends and go back to level without taking up some room.They make offset adpt. for the inserts but they also add height to the insert and can cause drafting problems.I am not trying to be negative but these are the things that make for a safe and a good performing insert. I have installed wood stoves and inserts for 20 years and its all in the planning get it right the first time and evrybody well be happy. Best of luck!

thank you for the insight.
i will admit, i am NEW to all this, but rest assured i will be overly educated when it comes time to install the unit.
there are 2 things that i have the utmost respect for, those are fire and electricity, a close third is water(in a home)
if you have any links that would be helpful in education someone such as myself on the process of installing a insert and wood stoves in general, be it installing them, maintaining, or increasing their efficiency/burn, i would be very grateful for any and all info you can throw my way.
thanks

 

[Wet1]

Welcome!

I would suggest you start by reading lots of threads here. Any question you have has probably been answered a 1000 times over... the search feature is your friend.

 

[par0thead151]

Welcome!

I would suggest you start by reading lots of threads here. Any question you have has probably been answered a 1000 times over... the search feature is your friend.

agreed, i just need to invest the time...
is there any reason to not consider the jotul 350 if the 450 cant fit in my fireplace?
I would like to have higher BTU's, as the 350 is a fairly small insert.

 

[Wet1]

The 350 is pretty undersized for your application. In general, you'll probably want the biggest box you can fit in that fireplace. Let us know what you have for dimensions when you get the old unit out.

 

[Wet1]

my fireplace box is currently 21" high X 42" wide X 19" deep(it may be deeper but presently a gas insert is in there and i need toi remove that for an accurate measurement)

Are you sure that number is correct? That seems pretty low to me.

 

[par0thead151]

my fireplace box is currently 21" high X 42" wide X 19" deep(it may be deeper but presently a gas insert is in there and i need toi remove that for an accurate measurement)

Are you sure that number is correct? That seems pretty low to me.

i will get you guys the exact specs tonight when i get home from work.
if im lucky the firebox will be able to be enlarged by removing and cutting a piece of granite, im willing to do that to get a larger insert in there, as the 350's BTU's are almost half that of the 450's

 

[par0thead151]

below are pictures of what i have found thus far in my fireplace.
there are manuals from the previous owners, the ones that are listed are the natural wood fireplace, the one i did not take pictures of are the papers for the nat gas insert.
please let me know what you guys think of what i am working with here. I am hesitant to remove any more rivets as i believe the entire nat gas setup is now removed.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r42/par0thead151/DSCN5287.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r42/par0thead151/DSCN5288.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r42/par0thead151/DSCN5289.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r42/par0thead151/DSCN5290.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r42/par0thead151/DSCN5290.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r42/par0thead151/DSCN5296.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r42/par0thead151/DSCN5298.jpg

 

[par0thead151]

bump for more info

 

[North of 60]

If that gas line is still hooked up to the source, CAP IT! Thats all the info I got. Question though, what type of chimney is hooked up to that? I dont think its for solid fuel. Looks like it will be only C vent.
N of 60
EDIT: C/B vent

 

[par0thead151]

If that gas line is still hooked up to the source, CAP IT! Thats all the info I got. Question though, what type of chimney is hooked up to that? I dont think its for solid fuel. Looks like it will be only C vent.
N of 60

I spoke with a local vendor about my situation and he was pushing me towards one of the units that extend out a bit, like the avalon olympic. his reasoning was that if my factory built fireplace size is not exactly what the jotul is, i will have issues. I prefer the cleaner look of the flush fit inserts though.
(broken link removed)

I have a factory built fire place that was installed with the home. later changed to the natural gas insert.
majestic SR42 is the make/model of the solid fuel insert that came with the home.
the remaining liner is riveted in and i am hesitant to remove any more unless it is necessary for adding the wood insert. as it stands now, the box dimensions(not including the taper on the left and right side) are...
depth:20"
width:24"
height:20" actual opening size, add 8" if the green tile facade is removed on the lower section.
thanks for the help.

 

[daryl]

Dude thats not a zero clearance fireplace any more.No floor no refractory big holes in it. stick the gas back in and be done with it.

 

[par0thead151]

Dude thats not a zero clearance fireplace any more.No floor no refractory big holes in it. stick the gas back in and be done with it.

i would really like to make this a wood burning fireplace. i am hell bent on it, as i never use the gas one as it is inefficient as hell(no blower on it, just heat out the chimney)
i assume that since everything was ripped out i will need to have what was removed reinstalled.

 

[Don Ed]

As far as doing an install yourself, I agree with others, it can be done! I did a ton of research and talked to the installers at the store I bought the insert from and was really convinced I could do the job with my Dad and Brother helping. Here is the link to my photos after the my insert went in:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/36144/

Good Luck!

 

[par0thead151]

As far as doing an install yourself, I agree with others, it can be done! I did a ton of research and talked to the installers at the store I bought the insert from and was really convinced I could do the job with my Dad and Brother helping. Here is the link to my photos after the my insert went in:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/36144/

Good Luck!

i wish i had your fireplace. mine is the new cheaper(non brick and mortar) type.

 

[czorbach]

You may want to look into gas inserts. They are different than gas fireplaces - efficient, safe, clean, give off a lot of heat and have blowers. I was seriously considering a gas insert for these reasons. It was very tempting to be able to have a fire with the click of a remote control. I decided to go with wood as I grew up with a wood stove and also wanted to diversify for cost reasons - my furnace is natural gas. Spend some time on the "It's a Gas!" message board to gather more information.