Stove temp vs pipe temp and how much draft ?

[They Call Me Pete]

How much should they differ if they should ? I'm having issues with my stove/stove store and they think I have an overdraft problem. They want me to check the two temps. and see if heat is going up chimney hence the overdraft issue. They are coming out Wed. to check out stove and draft. I don't think I do because my glass is all smoked up when I choke it down overnight. If it was overdrafting it would be clear. This has all come about because I told them they sold me the wrong size stove for my house. I just want to return this one and spend $1k more for a bigger soapstone instead of my Avalon but they are giving me the run around with every other excuse except saying yes we made a mistake and we'll make good on the deal.

I've got a 20 ft 6" SS liner anyone know how much draft ? I need some numbers to compare to stove shops. Their credibility is shot from previous issues. I'm also calling stove manufacturer

 

[stoveguy13]

stove pipe and stove top temp is not the best method to check for over draft they should use a draft metter the temp may give you an idication that it is over drafting but depending on the gage of pipe and where the temp is taken it cloud give you fales readings.

 

[They Call Me Pete]

Yeah I'm not sure why they told me to do this. They want to know what pipe temp is at high, med., and low burn. So Far pipe temp has been between 400-450. They'll be doing the draft test Wed. with the meter. This is turning to out to be a PIA on my end of course not theirs. All they are doing is protecting their bottom line which = $$$$$ but don't care about customer service at all.

 

[Highbeam]

They're dragging their feet in hopes you'll cave in.

My Hearthstone gave specs for max draft strength. If they can't get the draft to exceed the spec for your stove then they need to give it up.

 

[They Call Me Pete]

Of course they are. I'm not giving up at all until I have my money back or mine goes back for full amount of stove and I get the other stove. Time to play hardball.

 

[philaphire]

What exactly is the issue with your stove? Could it be that your wood isn't properly seasoned? What kind of stove top temps are you getting? Do you have a blower & block off plate?

I don't think I do because my glass is all smoked up when I choke it down overnight. If it was overdrafting it would be clear.

From the sounds of this, I would say you don't have seasoned wood, or are shutting the air down too soon. Either could lead to poor stove performance and I would check that first before being concerned about overdraft.

EDIT: Just saw a pic of your stove - see that you have a blower, so still curious on the block off plate. Where is the stove located within your house? Exterior or interior chimney? Personally, I would have gone with the 45 degree Rainer and I bet that would have made a lot of difference....

 

[They Call Me Pete]

Well my oh so great stove store never offered it to me. Geez what a surprise! My oak has been split for over a year so I know it's not that. I'm only trying to heat about a 1000 sq ft of open floor plan. Stove is rated for 1800 so if it even did 1500 I'd be all set. How much area do you heat ? No I don't have block off plate installed because stove will be returned. What temp. do you run your stove at. I run mine 450-500 and at 550 it'll put some good heat out. Now if I need to run my at that high of a temp. I would say it's too small. I've gone through a cord of oak in a month and it hasn't been very cold here. You can't tell me that I should go through 5-6 cords a year. My parents had a old Vermont Casting which only used 2-3 cords 24/7 and that was back in the early 80's.

 

[reaperman]

It seems to me if you can't heat 1000sq ft, at 450 degrees there are other issues, like insulation. Just opening up your oven door after cooking dinner at 400 degrees will bring up the house temp.

 

[They Call Me Pete]

House has been fully remodeled with all new insulation in outside walls/ceilings and is pretty darn tight. My oven WILL warm up my kitchen after cooking so I still think something is wrong with the stove. Mabye a manufacturing issue I don't know. I'm calling Travis Industries today to talk to them and see what they say.

 

[philaphire]

I'm heating an 1800sf 50 year old split level with original windows/siding/insulation. The stove is on the lower level and right by the stairwell so heat circulates decently. I have a sunrooom addition furthest away from the stove and we have to run a space heater in there. Granted, this is Southeastern PA which is relatively mild. If you can run the stove at 450+ and it's putting out good heat, with the blower going, then I don't think the stove is at fault. I think installing a block off plate - a simple piece of sheet metal to seal off the damper, would make a big difference. Think about it, your stove is in an alcove sitting in the fireplace - the heat coming off the top is going up your chimney. A block off plate would reflect that heat back to the stove and hopefully the room.

 

[Bill]

Pete I have had Oak that wasn't dry in one year, are you sure it's dry?

 

[Highbeam]

Travis makes Lopi too right? Well my old Lopi insert, the freedom Bay, didn't really start making mojo until 600 or 650. The overfire temp is 800 on that stove. How hot have you gotten it? 5-6 cords is about normal for my Seattle like climate. I would expect that consumption or more in CT.

I'm all for you getting a stove that you'll be happy with and I think you would be happy with soapstone freestanding but I am not sure that your current stove is not capable of heating your home.

 

[They Call Me Pete]

At 550 it starts making good heat and that's me constantly tending it. Firebox is small and at 550 freight training it consumes alot of wood. I don't want a stove that I need to cut and split 5+ cords when I can have a stove that better fits my needs with less wood consumption. I have been a slave to my stove for a month and can not leave my house for more than 3 hrs. unless I want it to go out. If I worked in the winter it would be useless to me. I paid $2200 for the whole thing and my oil bill for the winter is LESS than that. So now I paid that much for the stove plus I'll still have to buy oil. Defeats the whole purpose of the stove heating my house to save money. Stove shop can't see that I'm paying double the money. If I new this was going to consume my life I would've never done it. My parents were never a slave to the stove. We could leave house for over 8 hrs. and come home to a nice thick bed of coals. Why is it so hard for people to admit they made a mistake.

 

[philaphire]

Not to be whatever, but I never heard your answer on the block off plate - do you have one installed? If you're losing heat up the chimney, doesn't matter what stove you get.

EDIT: seems like this has already been discussed with you Pete as BeGreen said:

A blower will help the stove circulate a lot more heat. It's not a problem to run it without the decorative panels.

Is the stove connected to an interior or exterior chimney? Without a blockoff plate, a lot of the heat off the top of that stove is heading up to warm up all the masonry of the chimney. If it's an exterior chimney, the stove is losing a lot of heat that could and should stay indoors.

I'm not saying you don't have beef with the stove shop, but I am saying that you have the stove you have and it's january. Install a block off plate, see what/if difference that makes - while at the same time going after the stove shop if that's what you think is best. Might as well be warm in the meantime!

Ask the stove shop if they would have installed a freestanding stove without a block off plate. My hunch is they would have used a block off plate. The faceplates on inserts are supposed to kinda act as that. you didn't get the face plates, so they should have offered/installed the block off plate.

 

[They Call Me Pete]

They are coming out tomorrow to do a draft test on it. I did the install but they told me I didn't need a block off plate just the one at top of chimney. What I got shopping there was "yes this stove will heat your house and here sign right here". Nobody ever said that one will heat it but this one will also and you'll use less wood. Hell I could sell stoves based on the manufacturers specs. I think 5-6 cord of wood to heat 1000 sq ft is a lot and I really don't think it's all going up into chimney. If I have an overdraft problem than fine. I really don't want to take stove out and return but on the other hand if I need to run stove wide open to get any real heat that should tell ANYONE it's too small. NO ?? My oil bill for the year is LESS than I paid for the stove. The whole reason I got the stove was to ELIMINATE my oil bill but now I paid for the stove and will still need to buy oil because stove isn't doing it's job. Never mind the fact I need to buy 2-3 cords to feed this little monster. I figured I would only need to buy 1 cord. So factor all that in and I just spent TWICE as much as I would have for oil alone. That's why I'm pissed at the stove store.

 

[swestall]

Hi Pete, Ya gotta separate all the issues from one another. Oil, wood, stove, stack, etc. That way you can focus down on what is really the problem.
Having burned wood stoves for over 40 years, I don't think that 500 degrees, stovetop, is out of the zone. In fact, often times when going through the initial warming cycle, I've had to burn hot for some time. Then when all the stuff in the house is up to temp, it takes a lot less to keep it there.
But, if you were expecting to get 8+ hour burns and all the heat you want and you are now burning through wood in a lot less time to keep the place warm, then your firebox isn't big enough to provide the burn time to deliver the heat you are expecting.
You have to ask yourself if the store knew what you were expecting and made a recommendation based on that or if a GUESS was made based on your sales interview/conversation. If that in fact is the case, then we need to wonder if they realize they made the recommendation and didn't do the assessment of what you needed. In my case, my need was pretty much defined by what had worked in the past to provide heat/burn needed. I don't think you had that going into this.
I hope it is just too much draft; that can be solved. If it is indeed firebox capacity, then it needs to be addressed. I hope they will work it out with you as the actual facts become apparent. Sometimes people get on the same page when they see the results of analyzing the "what is the problem" phase of a customer interaction.
In my personal case, I just had to write off the entire thing and start from scratch; a big deal financially. But, I have to tell you that just making the decision and moving on are a real relief.
If you really like the Hearthstone, perhaps you can keep on trying to strike a deal that works for both of you.

 

[They Call Me Pete]

Swestall, That's the point I'm arguing but they don't care. They have their money so it's basically screw you buddy that stove will heat your house and who cares if it takes 10 cords a season. We told them how big our house was and that this is going to be PRIMARY heat for it. "Oh sure it'll heat it no problem Pete". Never said anything about burn times and exactly what it ment or how much wood we might use. If they had said it would use 5-6 cords I would have asked about another stove that wouldn't have to work so hard. It's like towing a 25' boat with a 6 cyl. truck vs a 8 cyl. The six will do it but will use twice as much gas as the eight. Which one would you buy? DUH, the one that doesn't work as hard. My 5 yr old could figure that out. This store has had 5 complaints filed with the state 's attorney general. Time to play hard ball !

Here's a question for ya, If you owned a stove shop and customer wasn't happy and chose to return the stove but buy a $1k more stove wouldn't you gladly take it back. I would take it back just because customer wasn't happy. It's called CUSTOMER SERVICE and having HAPPY CUSTOMERS. One dissatisfied customer will do more damage than 10 happy ones. Bad news travels fast.

 

[loneeagle15]

hope I don't piss you off anymore than you already are but maybe they did not make a mistake maybe you did it seems that you have enough smarts to find this site and groan about the stove but not enough to research different stoves before you bought yours. We just bought our stove last year and are first time burners I went into the different stove sores in our area knowing burn times, btu's, and firebox capacities I asked on this site from people in a similar climate how much wood should I expect to burn before I bought the stove to see if I was up to gathering that much each year or if a pellet stove would be a better choice, I don't know much about the climate in Ct. but I would assume it gets kinda cold there and you only expected to burn 1 cord over a 4 month period you should have at least taken the capacity of your fire box and divided it into a cord to see how many days it would last, finally get serious you must be an employee and not a business owner to assume that a company is going to give you a full refund of your money with out first checking things out (which it sounds to me like they are doing) but then again did you just where they told you without having the smarts to read what you were signing it probably had a something about their refund policy

 

[slofr8]

I thought I had over draft issue's too last year. My soap stone stove only wants 450 F stove top temps. max. I was seeing 650 F +. When I would damp it down I would get dirty glass. Some times I couldn't shut it down enough. I restricted the intake air and was considering a flue damper when my thermometer sh!t the bed. Turns out it was giving inaccurate readings all along. Bought a new one and installed a flue temp. probe and all is well. Oh, I do have plenty of draft but I can keep them within the manufacturers specs. and no more smoky glass.
Hope you get this resolved.
Dan.

 

[dsrJoubert]

A friend of mine developed something that I think would take the guesswork out of your problem. It's a device that automatically adjusts the airflow and fan speed of your stove or insert to produce the heat you want. It's so cool! (or rather - it's hot!!) Unfortunately, it's not for sale commercially, but if we can determine that there's a market for it, we'd give it a shot. Does it sound interesting to you? You can learn more by visiting our website at www.inveninc.com or you can take our survey: (broken link removed to http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=lJX_2b1hXxQ52Fk2WiDMY_2fBg_3d_3d)

 

[They Call Me Pete]

JD, I don't expect to burn one cord over 4 months but as said before my parents had a old Vermont Casting that only burned 2-3 cords per winter not 5-6. That stove was twice the size of mine. I actually found this sight after we bought the stove else I WOULD have spent time researching.

As a matter of fact I do own a company and CUSTOMER SERVICE IS NUMBER ONE PRIORITY PERIOD! Where the hell would you be without them. If I plant a tree and it dies I replace it no questions asked. The cost of replacement is built into cost of original price of course.

As far as the refund went I knew they don't give your money back but all I wanted to do is return mine and SPEND ANOTHER $1K ON A BIGGER SOAPSTONE. Who the hell wouldn't do that. I sure would.

I figured out what was happening by chance. The top plate had a section that didn't seal well so it was pulling air out of the house. Plain and simple Dean's Stove And Spa sucks at customer service. The five complaints with the States Attorney Generals Office backs my statement up.

 

[loneeagle15]

The cost of replacement is built into cost of original price of course.

boy that kinda sucks so $1000. of my soapstone stove was to cover the cost of me returning it man what a rip off
where do you want me to send your sign?? One of the points to my statement was maybe you should have done some research before you bought your stove! Or did you just get internet access?

 

[paulie]

So you found the problem...good, So Deans wasn't all at fault huh... perhaps we need to check all avenues before we piss up some ones chimney. Did you say you did the install??? install the block plate too...

 

[They Call Me Pete]

JD, I was talking about the tree not your stove. You probably don't want to know the mark-up on your stove.

Wood wacker, the problem I had with them was the lies, passing a used blower off as new(at full price) and not willing to help me figure out what was wrong. All the said was an overdraft problem which when I talked to manufacturer they said it wasn't. They had my money and that's all they cared about.

Yes I did do the install and I take full responsibility for the mistake(if was one) but Dean's could've done the same thing.