stuck scraper bar on heat tubes

[stinger68]

Hi i was amazed when i opened my ef3 stove yesterday and looked at the heat tubes and found a blackish tar color on the tubes and it wass hard to scrap off.The funny thing is i just did a complete teardown and complete cleaning about a mont prior to heating season.I have only burned 4 bags of eastern embers pellets so far.Why would the tubes have this on them now usually they have a light power of dust which i clean by pulling on the rod about 3 or 4 times.I posted in previous topics that i was getting a smell in my house of wood burning smell.I checked all my pipes re-siliconed retaped joints i even put on a new exaust motor gasket.I still get a smell when it going-not really strong but there anyway and when i go to basement and come back upstairs i smell it again so its there.Itried looking for a leak with lights out and flashlight-no smoke that i can see.What i did do was put my trouble light inside the burn chamber -turn it on and look for light throught tubes-i did not see light- but i saw light where the scraper tube has access to the stove.when you pull on the scraper handle there is a lil gap but that needs to be there for the movement of the scraper.Can the smell i have be coming out of that hole?It cant be sealed because the bar need to move.Any input would be great and thanks again everyone for all suggestions.

 

[eschills]

You would probably be able to sniff right there during start up, or while the stove is running, and see if it's coming from there. Someone had posted in an earlier thread "the nose knows". I am still fighting a smoke odor issue with my pipes as well. I am going to change from the older model Simpson Dura Vent to either the newer Pellet Pro or to Selkirk.

 

[littlesmokey]

Sounds like air issues. Black gunk would indicate incomplete burn, or excessive cooling at the tubes. I have never had a build up on the tubes in over 10 years. It may be an accumulation of something other than fuel. Did you seal the stove? Use any caulking or other sealers? Did you recheck your setting? If I were to take a guess, burn it hot for a day and see if you get powder and no crud.

 

[stinger68]

air issue well the burn pot seems to be clean enough for general usage a lil build up of hard clinker on the metal but not affecting the burn ports all clean in burn chamber. The flame seems to flow and looks like the airbeing sucked in is ok- i can feel pressure on my hand when i put over the air intake port aon back of stove.

 

[slls]

You can get odor out of the scrape rod and also the air wash gap at the window. I was getting a lot when I was using direct vent, went to vertical and very little now.

 

[krooser]

My dealer recommends running the stove on "high" everyday for at least 20 minutes to help burn away deposits inside the stove

 

[pete324rocket]

Eastern embers are spruce i think and if I recall,they and other softwood based pellets leave a "tar" behind that you don't get with the hardwood blends. I also have the little hole where the rod goes and have never blamed any wood smell from it since it is so small. I have read on the forum here where someone says to light paper on fire in the hopper and close the lid and will determine if the lid on the hopper leaks,but depending on the design of the stove,that may not be an issue anyways, and mine is fairly loose fitting. If the stove is fairly new,but didn't leak before,it is doubtful is has developed a hole in a tube. I know that if I open the door while the stove is running,even briefly,the smell will quickly become an issue.

 

[littlesmokey]

Eastern embers are spruce i think and if I recall,they and other softwood based pellets leave a "tar" behind that you don't get with the hardwood blends.

That is totally bogus. You were told that in definite error. I have burned all sorts of "softwood" pellets and find them to meet all standards for use and cleanliness. Whoever told you that needs to get an education.

 

[hearthtools]

I have seen this alot on the EF 2 and 3s
most of the time it is from poor maintenance and or wrong air adjustment and people just keep burning the stove when the stove is not getting proper combustion.

and normally the air damper will be stuck also.

the only way to get it clean is to use some liquid creaosoot destroyer. Spray it on and let sit then use a torch to burn it off.
and some elbo grease with screw drivers and paint scrapers and just keep working it.

if your air damper is stuck I find it saves a lot of time to just remove the combuston blower and then remove the combuston chamber that the blower is mounted to and treat it the same way as above.
I think I posted some photos here a long time ago of us dong this.

 

[pete324rocket]

Eastern embers are spruce i think and if I recall,they and other softwood based pellets leave a "tar" behind that you don't get with the hardwood blends.

That is totally bogus. You were told that in definite error. I have burned all sorts of "softwood" pellets and find them to meet all standards for use and cleanliness. Whoever told you that needs to get an education.

You get "eastern embers" where you live? That seems unlikely.

 

[pete324rocket]

here is a link to prove the "spruce" part.


(broken link removed to http://www.shawgroupltd.com/emberspellets/productinfo.htm)

 

[hearthtools]

here is a link to prove the "spruce" part.


(broken link removed to http://www.shawgroupltd.com/emberspellets/productinfo.htm)

I dont get it what does that page prove?

on the west coast almost all our pellets are soft wood.
Pine, Fir Spruce, ect
the east coast is most hard wood.

Soft wood pellets are normaly cleaner that hard wood.

the reason people get sticky build up in not from the pellets it is from improper combustion air to fuel ratio
some pellet will need more air that others depending on moisture content

what I have found is the best wood for pellets is 100% fir or a 90% fir and the rest pine and or spuce.
but now there is a shortage of fir so most pellets on the west are pine type wood.

 

[pete324rocket]

my last post

 

[littlesmokey]

I agree with Rod. Reference i smeaningless. Stop spreading fallasies. I think the new preferred wood will be lodge pole pine, particularily with the beetle kill ravaging the Western forests.

 

[hearthtools]

my last post

OK but soft wood pellets do not cause gunk in a stove.
they burn just as clean as a hard wood pellet or IMO cleaner as far as amount of ash
I have sold over 800 tons of soft wood pellets for the past 18 years

 

[hearthtools]

my last post

OK but soft wood pellets do not cause gunk in a stove.
they burn just as clean as a hard wood pellet or IMO cleaner as far as amount of ash
I have sold over 800 tons of soft wood pellets for the past 18 years

thats 800 tons PER YEAR for the past 18 years

 

[jtakeman]

my last post

OK but soft wood pellets do not cause gunk in a stove.
they burn just as clean as a hard wood pellet or IMO cleaner as far as amount of ash
I have sold over 800 tons of soft wood pellets for the past 18 years

I agree, Nothing wrong with a softwood pellet. Good clean burn and lots of heat. Best pellet I ever burnt was made of Douglas fur, Smoking hot!

Where I live 90% of the dealers will tell you that you should only burn hardwood pellets. They seem to have the woodstove/Hardwood only Yankee mentality. Sorry Compressed softwood is equal to or surpasses hardwood. More BTU's per pound.

Good for me because that generally makes them cheaper for me to buy!

 

[stinger68]

Hi thanks for all the replies fellow pellet users.Ok it was mentioned about poor air flow maybe a issue well my air damper rod works ok slides good and with the enviro stove i have when i open it all the way or put it back all the way back in to as cloased as it can go i dont notice much or any difference in the flame.My friend as a envro ef3 insert and his is pretty much the same way.I watch when the pellets drop there is always sparks flying about and always some flying around and go towards the heat tubes.I notice somtimes te flame gets a lil higer in the burn chamber and others it low in chamber .My aunt had apelle stove which i cleaned and fired up and wow when i adjusted the air on that model te flame shot to the top of the stove?????Doe my stove the enviro ef3 just work on a low flame in the fire box?It will get high on start up because i think a large amout of pellets have dropped and if i turn it on over 3/4 on dial a fire then flame is higher because of fead rate.??

 

[gutterboy2ca]

stinger68,don,t fret over the slight smoke smell.My 10 year old EF3 does the exact same thing,but only this year after cleaning it completely out on the deck.I havent pinpointed it yet 100% where its comming from,but do me a favor,turn the stove on high for 10 mins,pull your air damper all the way out,and make sure your fan is turned clear up.Then get down behind the stove and stick your snout by the exhaust vent on the rear,i'm guessing youll smell it very clearly, as its being sucked back in the fresh air intake and out thru the front Heat exchangers.
If you have a O.A.K installed,that won,t be your problem as mine doesn,t have one and is drawing the smell back in.Curious if yours is doing exactly same as mine.
Only thing i did diff was unhook the pipe from the back of the stove.I plan to remove it again,reseal with UTV sealant,wrap with Heat tape and see if it still persists.Let me know how you make out determining where its comming from.
As for your Air damper,you can try this little test.Turn feedrate down to 8 o"clock position, turn convection fan speed down to 50%, open air all the way, see if it will run all nite without going out(mine won't) when air is almost completely shut, on low, it will plug away for days on low without going out, so i know the damper is doing its job, you just can,t tell on High for some odd reason.

 

[gutterboy2ca]

pete324rocket, c,mon now, don,t get your long underwear all in a bunch, seasons just started and it might be a long winter to zipper your lips on,lol.But in agreeance with majority rule, softwood is the premium pellet material to be found, and i could be wrong here but i believe the Tar, or Creasote is generally only found in (Hardwood Species)not softwood.But then again, im no stinkin Lumberjack, lol...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote

 

[mnkywrnch]

I have found burning on low for extended periods leaves a buildup hardwood and softwood alike.

 

[GIPPER]

What about stoves that there is no adjustment for the air. My castille only has a feed rate adjustment and a low,med,high switch?

 

[ShaneR34]

I would guess poor combustion air as well.

When we moved into this house last year with the EF3 preexisting here, that scrape rod was stuck on ours as well. When we had the tech come out to clean and service before the season, he took one look at the tubes and said the previous owner was not operation correctly: Burning it too low and/or poor air. He said it appeared the tubes actually caught fire.

Anyway, I burn Eastern Embers in this EF3 as well and haven't had a problem since. The stove stays clean with normal maintenance.

The only problem I've had was with the damper which, for some reason, wouldn't close the final inch or so. I just "fixed" this yesterday by gently tapping on the rod with the hammer. Hopefully I didn't do anymore damage, but everything seems normal now. Not sure why It was like that.

And, you are right, you won't notice a large difference in the flame while using the damper in most of it's positions. But, you can certainly see a difference with the last inch or two when closing it. As was said above, I can only operate the stove below the 12 o'clock position if I nearly close the damper.

EDIT: Meant to say, Stinger, that as you noticed, you won't get a "tall" flame on the lower settings. So, it certainly is related to feed rate and the flame will fluctuate as, if your stove is like mine with the Eastern Embers, that feed rate will vary--for each turn of the auger, different amount of pellets will come down, or none at all. On the lower setting, though, if proper air is set, the flame should at least be at the top of burn pot, in my experience...give or take.

 

[stinger68]

Ok what i did last night was i attached a plastic abs flexable sump pump hose to the air tube on back of my enviro ef3 stove and taped it on.After about ten mins or so i noticed that the burning smell had disappeared out of the heat tubes at the air blowing the heat out into the house.This then tells me that the leak which i still cant locate was being sucked back into the air tube and blown out into the room.What i did notice was that the flame seemed to be a lil more brisk and abundant-I used about over 20 ft of hose and placed it into my porch(which is colder).I cant vent it outside as a o.a.k. because of the location of my stove is in kitchen and not near a outside wall.I have a humadex in my house and maybe this is causing a issues?Do you think?Well by the look of the flame now with the plastic pie on the air tube it seems that i should try and drill a hole in my floor behind my stove and place the pipe downstairs.But the problem of my leak still is there and it must be by the exaust motor(i put a new gasket on last week) i resiliconed everywhere and taped like crazy.I tried to call the fire dept to get a sniffer like someone suggested by havent got a call baqck yet on anyone that has 1 in my area.The leak is still there but i cant notice it now because of the pipe on the air intake.

 

[littlesmokey]

You seem to have discovered a solution. Your stove is starved fur air. It is drawing it from anywhere it can. When you did not use the hose it was overpowering the positive pressure in the combustion stream and drawing air from it to feed the blowers, kind of making a loop. By adding an extension to the intake you are finding a source of air, not from the stove. I think you have solved both issues.

I am not sure what a humadex is, but guess a humidifer? Right? If you are conditioning your air, you need to give a little somewhere. The air feed through the floor may be an answer, but make sure you are running a pipe down and not just cutting a hole and leaving it open. Seal the edges.

Remember these are not fully air tight stoves, there are gaps here and there, the positive pressure takes these into account and provides the proper air movement. That's how the air wash system works on the door glass. I would do the update and see if problem is solved.

Don't forget to run the stove above the minimum to eliminate the smoky buildup.