Summers Heat (Englander) Model 28-3500

[RLLD]

I recently had a home built, and i had the builder add in a wood stove pipe to the existing design for the fireplace in the family room.

As a result my chimney includes the additional piping for the wood stove i would eventually like to add in my unfinished basement. The opening down there in the basement is 8", and I am told that I can use stoves requiring either an 8" OR a 6", not sure how accurate that truly is.

The basement area is approx 1500 sq ft, unfinished for now, and I really do not care if the room elevates to 100 degrees, my main concern is trying to get the heat to radiate into the first floor at least.

The first floor is approx 1500ft, and so is the second. Each floor has its own HVAC unit.

I grew up with a wood stove and I know that getting the right unit in place will likely keep the entire home comfortable; we would relish the notion of 90 degrees on the first floor

Looking for any thoughts on what I should consider....the picture is bad, but all I currently have to show the location intended, its at the very end, and you can barely see the hole for the stove near the top of the ceiling.

Some pics for perspective

 

[RLLD]

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/RLLD/May2008_022.jpg

 

[backpack09]

As a rule of thumb. You should install any space heater (like a wood stove) into the space you need heated.

I have a much smaller house, open first floor plan with poor insulation. about 1000 sf on the first floor, and 300 on the second. When burning, keeping the room with the stove in it between 75-77, my second floor NEVER gets warmer than 62-65.

 

[RLLD]

As a rule of thumb. You should install any space heater (like a wood stove) into the space you need heated.

I have a much smaller house, open first floor plan with poor insulation. about 1000 sf on the first floor, and 300 on the second. When burning, keeping the room with the stove in it between 75-77, my second floor NEVER gets warmer than 62-65.

Gotcha.

As a youth we actually placed the stove in the basement, and that place still gets up to 88-90 degrees upstairs from that thing. I would likely be using the stove as a workhorse, it would more or less constantly burn and pump heat.

I have six cord's of wood split, and perhaps another four unsplit that I accumulated this summer.

After watching one of these things heat my parents house into summer-like temps for the last twenty years I am totally sold on the things!

 

[gpcollen1]

I don't know how much heat you will actually get upstairs with that set up. What I do know is that when I get my downstairs stove cranking, it warms the floor of the upstairs. It does not warm it enough to call it radiant heat but a warm floor is always welcome int he winter and does help.

 

[RLLD]

I don't know how much heat you will actually get upstairs with that set up. What I do know is that when I get my downstairs stove cranking, it warms the floor of the upstairs. It does not warm it enough to call it radiant heat but a warm floor is always welcome int he winter and does help.

What I have managed to learn thus far is that with the right unit in place operating and the right level it will warm the basement and first floor at least, but not likely have an appreciable impact on the second floor.

I am looking at cutting an opening in duct nearest the stove and adding in a small fan that would effectively draw warm air from near the device into the first floor. If I can at least get teh first floor comfortable (say between 60 and 70 degrees) using mostly the stove I can supplement any further requirements through the HVAC units.

I have looked at a variety of stoves, mostly ones for sale on Craigslist, and am considering all options.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Look at code regarding that duct. It's a nono in some places because it allows fire to spread so readily.

 

[RLLD]

Checking back in fellas!

Here is a link to the unit I am 90% sure i may buy in the next few days. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=213081-76845-50-SHW35&lpage=none

This has a nice big ash tray, can take big pieces (up to 25 inches in length), and has the apparatus (as it is a "furnace") to force hot air into the upstairs areas as well as put out the typical radiant heat.

The drawback, or perhaps "concern", for me is that it is not EPA approved. Should I care?

 

[pen]

That's one serious heater! Just be prepared for some serious wood usage. Do you have ducting already that you can properly utilize for this? Or would you be adding it?

You said that you have a fireplace up stairs and chimney in the basement as well? If so, I'd be considering 2 units. A fireplace insert for upstairs and a freestanding unit for the basement.

That's just my opinion

pen

 

[webby3650]

Checking back in fellas!

Here is a link to the unit I am 90% sure i may buy in the next few days. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=213081-76845-50-SHW35&lpage=none

This has a nice big ash tray, can take big pieces (up to 25 inches in length), and has the apparatus (as it is a "furnace") to force hot air into the upstairs areas as well as put out the typical radiant heat.

The drawback, or perhaps "concern", for me is that it is not EPA approved. Should I care?

If you don't mind cutting 30% more wood and re-loading the stove more often. I would do some searches in the boiler room about good EPA furnaces before making a decision. These things are typically creosote factories.

 

[RLLD]

I have a fireplace on the first floor.

When we built the house I had the builder install a second flue for the wood stove, and I have the 8" opening ready and waiting in the basement.

When I grew up we had a stove, and that thing on radiant heat alone kept the house between 75 and 83 degrees. I am not looking to heat the entire house, I think its just to big to have that expectation. But I think this thing can certainly keep the first floor toasty ( between 70 and 75 degrees) and could "impact" the second floor. I have an HVAC unit for each floor, and we currently keep the place between 60 and 65 degrees......I am looking to reduce our electric usage more than anything, and if this thing can also keep it a bit warmer, that is a bonus.

I have six cords of wood sitting by right now, some of which I really need to start burning as well; and, I have access to wood. I am always finding more of it at various places.

My wife is VERY concerned that the unit is not EPA approved, and thinks that we could be making a mistake based on the EPA issue. I want to convince her on my preferred stove as I truly believe it is the best. But we both must agree, its our "agreement" on big purchases that both of us must be on board.

Should I be concerned about the EPA stuff?

 

[Todd]

Yes I'd be concerned that it's not EPA certified because you will go through at least 30% more wood and there is more danger of chimney fires. If your chimney is located near the stairwell you can get good results of some heat reaching the upper floor with a wood stove, but for a larger house like yours I would look into an EPA rated wood furnace like a PSG Caddy.

http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1131

 

[SlyFerret]

The page there says "wood burning stove", but it looks more like the wood burning furnace units that are made to hook into the ducting that is connected with your regular furnace.

-SF

 

[sandie]

Be careful in what you spend your $$$ on since you will need to pull a permit and get the fire department down for an inspection and if after all that they do not approve, the homeowners insurance would deny payment if a problem occurs. HOme owners could refuse to insure you brandy new home even if the fire dept approves so you should check first before going through any expense.

 

[staplebox]

Oy, not sure what you are looking for here. - You can't heat the whole house from the basement like your parents did. Your home looks nice, but it is a lot tighter than your parents place was. All that concrete in the basement will suck up the heat. Heat does rise but not how you'd like it to in a home. You may want to think about an insert on the main floor as your prmary heating source rather then a wood stove in the basement.

 

[RLLD]

Great info guys, thanks! Its a lot to consider.

 

[laynes69]

Having a wood furnace will help heat the basement with some radiant heat from the furnace. Plus you don't lose all the heat because the jacket is insulated, and the warm air flows around the firebox into the home. What size is your current furnace? Did you have a heat load done on the home? A Caddy is a nice furnace. It should heat your first floor, and basement without a problem. They burn clean, and are epa certified. I own one and if your looking for a clean burning furnace then thats the one I would get.

 

[RLLD]

My current design is a regular forced air HVAC system; one for the first floor and one for the second floor.

I had the rough in installed for the wood stove, along with the rather expensive piping, during construction. I had the duct work routed so that it is strategically placed to link right into where the stove would eventually be. The thought being that the pipe routing out of the top of the stove for in-home duct connection would more or less tie directly into it.

I don't mind it burning a bit more wood at all, I have plenty.

I will absolutely be talking to the fire department today, and also trying to better understand the non-EPA approval issue.

Bottom line is that I need to get buy-in from my wife on this thing. It has to look nice as the basement will one day be finished properly, and she is pretty firm on the EPA thing as well. But I want something truly beefy. If needed I will put a fan at the base of the steps to blow warm air up from the basement......what ever it takes.

 

[RLLD]

********UPDATE**********

I called the local Fire Marshal, he advised that there is nothing required from his end right now, but he would be happy to provide a post-installation inspection to ensure no issues are present.

He advised me to call the permits department, as they will want to issue a permit to connect the unit to the existing duct work, and there could be some backdraft prevention modifications to the locale of the entry point for the stove.

I am going to work with the builder who actually built my house, he is a custom builder and is happy to step in and assist us. I called Englander and spoke to the technical rep about the stove (furnance) I am interested in. He stated that they have been selling this model for about 20 years, and everyone loves it for its power to heat. Its 65% efficient and thus not EPA "rated", so instead of burning a cord per season I might burn 1 1/2 cords - not a big deal AT ALL to me.

He was able to provide some testimonials from buyers about the unit that were also very helpful. One person noted that when he lost power and the fan on the unit stopped working the pipe leading into his duct work got extremely hot, and so he keeps the fan on battery backup now......interesting.

 

[Hogwildz]

The "Stove pipe" the builder installed for the basement stove, is it triple wall s.s. Class A? Or just regular black single wall stove pipe?
Does it run up through a chase? or inside a masonry chimney? Make sure you research, and research some more. Better to take your time, do it right, and be safe.
Then risk burning down the house, or needing to replace stuff in a short period of time.

 

[SlyFerret]

I'm not sure, but it looks like the Englander unit you're looking at can be connected into your forced air system. If thats the case, you may be able to sufficiently heat the upstairs with it.

-SF

 

[Hurricane]

It does not look like you have a walk in basement. All that wood will need to be carried through the house and downstairs. That will be a lot of work. When you put the fireplace in upstairs why did you not install a heat generating fireplace like the quadrafire 7100, and there is another one. It may still pay to swap yours out and put the current one in the basement.

 

[RLLD]

The pipe in the chimney is proper. It passed the county inspection and it fully suitable to support a wood stove connection. I still have pictures of it during the build, will post them tomorrow.

The basement has an outside entrance at one end, steps that lead up to an outside door, and also have a doorway into the garage. I am looking at some options for wood storage closer to the house as the current wood pile is on the other acre ( I have two).

 

[RLLD]

****UPDATED****

I bought the Englander model 28-3500(aka Summers Heat) from Lowes. I had them deliver it and put it in place. Having that extra wide staircase added to the house plans before construction was solid. I have a 56" wide straight shot staircase leading straight out of the basement, with a door access into the garage as well. I could bring anything down those steps, and it made taking this beast down the stairs so much easier for the delivery guys - they were grateful....

Once in place I measured to understand what I would need, went to Lowes and bought the piping. I have it pretty much assembled in the manner it will be installed, but I do need a few more pieces to complete it, as I expected I might. So I will get them tonight to complete the setup.

The blower on this thing is boss....it moves your face if you hover over it. :swoon: it comes with a programmable thermostat, but I will keep it running pretty much 24/7, so I will have it set to "manual" anyways.

What Lowe's did not have, most people tell me I likely do not need, but I am adamant to use is the high temp silicone or furnace "cement" to seal the connections. Sure they fit nice and tight and will likely not have any seepage issues, but I prefer a more complete solution. So tonight I make sure I get my hands on that as well. I also bought a carbon monoxide alarm as a further precaution, placing it upstairs centrally in the first floor.

I will take some pictures tonight and post them into the thread; before and after, but also the progression of installation.

Once installed I will post information on how well this thing is working etc; try to give some meaningful feedback on its rate of consumption and performance.

I am pretty jazzed that I should have it fully operational by this weekend.

 

[boostnut]

I called Englander and spoke to the technical rep about the stove (furnance) I am interested in. He stated that they have been selling this model for about 20 years, and everyone loves it for its power to heat. Its 65% efficient and thus not EPA "rated", so instead of burning a cord per season I might burn 1 1/2 cords - not a big deal AT ALL to me.

Uhh, you were just throwing number out at random right? You do expect to burn more than 1-1/2 cords per season don't you? I'm guessing you could feed a cord per month to that unit. Sounds like your supply is in good shape for the remainder of this year + a good start on next. You may want to ask around here about wood consumption, could be a little higher than you expect.