Surge protection questions

[gdeangel]

I've been culling through all the posts here about power protection & backups. I am trying to figure out whether to go with a simple surge supressor or a UPS. I saw something here that said to look for >750 J power protection, <140 V clamping voltage (some information says that the best clamping voltage rating possible under UL 1449 is 330 V, so I don't know what this other number really means, ... maybe someone can explain it?)

So far here's what I've looked at (mostly products mentioned elsewhere on this forum):

1) Tripp Lite ULTRABLOK428 ($38 at amazon.com, discussed in other threads here)
-> 600J rating
-> 140 V clamping voltage (from Tripp Lite web site (broken link removed to http://www.tripplite.com/EN/lp/audio-video/pdf/ULTRABLOK.pdf))

2) Tripp Lite SPIKECUBE 1-Outlet Surge Protector (<$10 at Amazon.com)
->750 J rating
-> 150V clamping voltage (from http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=120)

3) Tripp Lite SMART1000LCD ($128 at amazon.com)
-> 480 J supression rating
-> 139V "switchover" high voltage setting
-> low input voltage correction down to 89V in (i.e., brownout protection)

There are a lot of other UPS / surge devices on the Tripp Lite web site with switchover voltages at 145V, so I am really not sure what to make of it all. The $+100 UPS looks like it will deal with voltage better, but less than ideal power protection. The <$10 guy looks ok if 150V is acceptable for the clampling voltage and brownout protection isn't necessary.

In my situaion, this is just a supplementary heat source. I don't plan to ever add a generator, and just want to do what I can to make sure the control board doesn't get fried. The only reason I am even thinking of a UPS is that I have had lots of 'brownouts', 1 second power interruptions since moving into my home, and I think that the issue is that some of the burried wiring in the subdevelopment is not in great condition. Because of this, I could see the stove being hit with a few brownouts every year, and frankly I'm not as concerning with smoke backup if the exhaust fan kicks out, as I am that the circuitry in my stove will get fried operating in those conditions.

The stove is a quadrafire Santafe (just hooked up yesterday). It's unplugged pending figuring out this issue, but once it's running I'll get some pictures up!

Anyway, any help from the experts here on this issue is appreciated.

 

[teetah222]

I picked up a surge protector from Lowes, rated for 2160 Joules, 330 V and Max spiking amps of 144,000. And it only cost $17. Has a warranty that will cover up to $300,000 in repairs or replacements. Unless you want a UPS I'd suggest going to Lowes.

 

[kbjelka]

I've been culling through all the posts here about power protection & backups. I am trying to figure out whether to go with a simple surge supressor or a UPS. I saw something here that said to look for >750 J power protection, <140 V clamping voltage (some information says that the best clamping voltage rating possible under UL 1449 is 330 V, so I don't know what this other number really means, ... maybe someone can explain it?)

So far here's what I've looked at (mostly products mentioned elsewhere on this forum):

1) Tripp Lite ULTRABLOK428 ($38 at amazon.com, discussed in other threads here)
-> 600J rating
-> 140 V clamping voltage (from Tripp Lite web site (broken link removed to http://www.tripplite.com/EN/lp/audio-video/pdf/ULTRABLOK.pdf))

2) Tripp Lite SPIKECUBE 1-Outlet Surge Protector (<$10 at Amazon.com)
->750 J rating
-> 150V clamping voltage (from http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=120)

3) Tripp Lite SMART1000LCD ($128 at amazon.com)
-> 480 J supression rating
-> 139V "switchover" high voltage setting
-> low input voltage correction down to 89V in (i.e., brownout protection)

There are a lot of other UPS / surge devices on the Tripp Lite web site with switchover voltages at 145V, so I am really not sure what to make of it all. The $+100 UPS looks like it will deal with voltage better, but less than ideal power protection. The <$10 guy looks ok if 150V is acceptable for the clampling voltage and brownout protection isn't necessary.

In my situaion, this is just a supplementary heat source. I don't plan to ever add a generator, and just want to do what I can to make sure the control board doesn't get fried. The only reason I am even thinking of a UPS is that I have had lots of 'brownouts', 1 second power interruptions since moving into my home, and I think that the issue is that some of the burried wiring in the subdevelopment is not in great condition. Because of this, I could see the stove being hit with a few brownouts every year, and frankly I'm not as concerning with smoke backup if the exhaust fan kicks out, as I am that the circuitry in my stove will get fried operating in those conditions.

The stove is a quadrafire Santafe (just hooked up yesterday). It's unplugged pending figuring out this issue, but once it's running I'll get some pictures up!

Anyway, any help from the experts here on this issue is appreciated.

I went for the Ultrablok after some pretty extensive research and some back and forth with an electrician here on the board. I think any Tripp Lite product is good but the SpikeCube is a little too cheap for my comfort level. My main concern, aside from stove protection, was not having another cord cluttering up the area. As far as the clamping voltage here's the definition I found which pretty well matches up with what the electrician was telling me...

The maximum amount of voltage that a surge protector will allow through itself before it will suppress the power surge. When the device reaches its clamping voltage, it blocks any further current from flowing through the device and into a computer system or other electronic device.

It is a pretty common problem to have over voltages and I don't think you want a clamping voltage of 330v protecting a 120v device.

 

[katwillny]

Well seems like you have done your research. I use the APC ES 725VA Battery Backup. I had a power outage a few weeks ago and it gave me enough time to get the generator up and going. My Breckwell P22 stove uses about 100 watts running on Medium so this ups works great as it distributes even power to the stove.

 

[gdeangel]

The last post raises another issue - when sizing a UPS, should you anticipate the starting draw, or the normal operating draw (which, on my stove, is about 1/4 the start-up power draw). I just wonder what would happen with an undersized UPS if the stove tries to enter start up mode during an outage when noone is home... I guess probably a very rapid discharge on the UPS resulting in an incomplete flame start and/or need to "reset" the control panel.

I found an interesting write up on clamping voltage. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,1155235,00.asp After reading it, I understand why the UL minimum allowable ratings would be for 330V. I guess a lower 140V rating is measuring the RMS clamping voltage, not the true maximum voltage potential that would trip the protection.

After reading that article, I'm leaning toward the Spikecube in the short term, figuring that I'll probably get a UPS eventually given the issues we have with the local power lines. I found a very useful article here: (broken link removed) In looking at APC web site, they seem to have something called a Line-R product that sounds like it covers both surges and brownouts. I guess this what the preceding article calls a "surge station". Does anyone here have any experience with those devices?

Thanks

 

[kbjelka]

I had same question regarding startup draw and a UPS. I borrowed a watt meter from work and checked the draw but never did the calculations for the UPS.

StartupIgnition - 380 Watts

Running
low - 70 Watts
med - 80 Watts
High - 100 Watts

As far as the clamping voltage the specs for the Ultrablok specify RMS so I guess that answers that one. Interesting read you found on surge suppressors. Thanks

 

[treehackers]

I think Tripp-lite just had some major recalls - go with APC

 

[imacman]

I think Tripp-lite just had some major recalls - go with APC

Can you be more specific? For what kind of problem? :grrr:

If you throw something like that out on the forum, please at least give us some way to check into it.....I have a TrippLite UPS. if it's some sort of fire hazard thing, I'd REALLY like to know about it NOW!

Thanks treehacker

 

[treehackers]

I think Tripp-lite just had some major recalls - go with APC

Can you be more specific? For what kind of problem? :grrr:

If you throw something like that out on the forum, please at least give us some way to check into it.....I have a TrippLite UPS. if it's some sort of fire hazard thing, I'd REALLY like to know about it NOW!

Thanks treehacker

I'm trying to find it - I think it was a notification from DELL

 

[charles u farley]

I think Tripp-lite just had some major recalls - go with APC

Can you be more specific? For what kind of problem? :grrr:

If you throw something like that out on the forum, please at least give us some way to check into it.....I have a TrippLite UPS. if it's some sort of fire hazard thing, I'd REALLY like to know about it NOW!

Thanks treehacker

http://www.cpsc.gov

Nothing from Tripp-lite listed as recalled, ever. The only surge protectors recalled in the last 10 years was Belkin, for poor molded plugs.
No Dell surge suppressors listed, just burning laptop batteries.

 

[imacman]

Nothing from Tripp-lite listed as recalled, ever. The only surge protectors recalled in the last 10 years was Belkin, for poor molded plugs.
No Dell surge suppressors listed, just burning laptop batteries.

Thanks CUF

 

[kbjelka]

I think Tripp-lite just had some major recalls - go with APC

Can you be more specific? For what kind of problem? :grrr:

If you throw something like that out on the forum, please at least give us some way to check into it.....I have a TrippLite UPS. if it's some sort of fire hazard thing, I'd REALLY like to know about it NOW!

Thanks treehacker

http://www.cpsc.gov

Nothing from Tripp-lite listed as recalled, ever. The only surge protectors recalled in the last 10 years was Belkin, for poor molded plugs.
No Dell surge suppressors listed, just burning laptop batteries.

What is really interesting is that the cpsc site does show a recent APC ups recall because the ARE a FIRE HAZARD.

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/prhtml03/03068.html

Lot's of information on the board the trick is knowing what is good and what is bad.

 

[imacman]

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/pr/03068.html

Groundhog, link doesn't work...."Page cannot be found" error

 

[kbjelka]

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/prhtml03/03068.html

Groundhog, link doesn't work...."Page cannot be found" error

You're too fast for me macman, posted a fixed link, check it now.

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/prhtml03/03068.html

 

[swalz]

The last post raises another issue - when sizing a UPS, should you anticipate the starting draw, or the normal operating draw (which, on my stove, is about 1/4 the start-up power draw). I just wonder what would happen with an undersized UPS if the stove tries to enter start up mode during an outage when noone is home... I guess probably a very rapid discharge on the UPS resulting in an incomplete flame start and/or need to "reset" the control panel.

I found an interesting write up on clamping voltage. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,1155235,00.asp After reading it, I understand why the UL minimum allowable ratings would be for 330V. I guess a lower 140V rating is measuring the RMS clamping voltage, not the true maximum voltage potential that would trip the protection.

After reading that article, I'm leaning toward the Spikecube in the short term, figuring that I'll probably get a UPS eventually given the issues we have with the local power lines. I found a very useful article here: (broken link removed) In looking at APC web site, they seem to have something called a Line-R product that sounds like it covers both surges and brownouts. I guess this what the preceding article calls a "surge station". Does anyone here have any experience with those devices?

Thanks

To answer you question on what will happen it you go over the wattage that the UPS can handle, It will shut off power to the equipment or trip the breaker. Let me tell you it's no fun trying to explain to your VP why most of the servers shut of in a rack because someone hooked them all up to one branch on the UPS. >:-(

 

[mainegeek]

Let me tell you it's no fun trying to explain to your VP why most of the servers shut of in a rack because someone hooked them all up to one branch on the UPS. >:-(

It was "unplanned" disaster recovery training!

Sounds like the redundant power supplies for the servers were plugged into the same UPS?