T5 Alderea air kit (homemade)

CenterTree

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
SouthWest-Central PA
Looking at the bottom of my T5 I can see that the hole for a pipe is about 4.25" .

I want to run some of my own pipe out through the wall utilizing an old hole from a previous pellet stove.
This seems easy enough.

My question is: When I stuck my hand up into the hole on bottom of stove I can feel that there is an immediate constriction of the diameter due to some sort of sloping, metal plate up inside.
How do you fit a pipe up in there ? It seems like I would need to cut or slice the pipe to allow it to bend like a flap so it can clear that PLATE.

The placement of that metal plate just seem very odd to me.

Any ideas?
Thanks.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,194
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
The 4” hole is just so that you can attach a 4” pipe. That is not to say that any part of the intake system needs such a huge air feed.
 

CenterTree

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
SouthWest-Central PA
The 4” hole is just so that you can attach a 4” pipe. That is not to say that any part of the intake system needs such a huge air feed.
So how do I attach a pipe internally with that goofy plate being in the way?
If I use a smaller diameter pipe, then how do I seal the gap around the pipe?
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,194
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Do you think it is valuable to “seal” this pipe?

I think a picture would help with the details. Check out the hvac or clothes dryer duct section of the local big box hardware store.
 

CenterTree

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
SouthWest-Central PA
At the very least youd want to make it bug proof.
Did you ever check the hole in your T5's bottom? Let me know what you think of that plate that is up inside of the hole. (it is towards the stove's front direction of the hole). It semi blocks any pipe you would be trying to insert in the hole.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,466
South Puget Sound, WA
The angle you are feeling is the back of the ashpan. Remove it for a clearer view. Are you using the PE T5 OAK or home brew? If home brew, get yourself a 4" start collar from the hardware store. <See below> One type will have notched "fingers". If so, bend every other finger outward 90º. This will create a flange. Then insert the fingered end into the hole until the bent fingers make contact with the stove. Reach into the ashpan opening (or reach up on the inside of the collar) and bend the fingers that are sticking up inside the stove outward so that they clinch and lock the collar in place.

The start collar may look like this, where you have to create the flange:
Screen Shot 2020-03-20 at 1.59.53 PM.png

Or it may look like this, with a flange already. If it has this flange then don't pre-bend any tabs. Just insert and bend them all outward and down to lock the collar in place.
Screen Shot 2020-03-20 at 2.01.58 PM.png

NOTE: If you intend to install the blower then it may be necessary to either come straight down with the OAK piping or off at an angle so that it doesn't bump into the blower.
 
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CenterTree

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
SouthWest-Central PA
The angle you are feeling is the back of the ashpan. Remove it for a clearer view. Are you using the PE T5 OAK or home brew? If home brew, get yourself a 4" start collar from the hardware store. <See below> One type will have notched "fingers". If so, bend every other finger outward 90º. This will create a flange. Then insert the fingered end into the hole until the bent fingers make contact with the stove. Reach into the ashpan opening (or reach up on the inside of the collar) and bend the fingers that are sticking up inside the stove outward so that they clinch and lock the collar in place.....
Good ideas on bending the flanges.

However, I removed the ash pan, but the metal plate is still in the way. The ash pan seems to make no difference when removed.????
I was thinking to use a pipe like this. There is only 4.25 inches distance from the stove bottom down to the hearth. So I need to make a turn within that space. If I add any straight pieces or collar, then I would be too low.
1585087977021.png
 

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,466
South Puget Sound, WA
OK, your stove is newer than mine and a different model.

With that fitting I would take straight tin snips (yellow handle) and make cuts down to the flange about 3/4 apart on the crimped end. These will become the tabs that get folded over. Then insert the tabbed end into the stove bottom and bend the tabs over to clinch the elbow in place.
 
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CenterTree

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
SouthWest-Central PA
Actually, the more I look at this, the less sense it make under there. I took the ash pan out and I can see that there is a large metal "baffle" or stopper plate at the very back edge of where the pan would stop. The plate is riveted in place. It is just a shield of some sort.

It seems to me that any type of OAK hooked up to this stove would be FAR from airtight. Air could simple be drawn in from around the inserted pipe. I mean air can come from anywhere along the ash pan void under the stove.

Almost seems like any OAK would be supplying about 60% air from outside, with the rest being sucked in all around the stove bottom/ash pan area. NOTHING is tight enough under there to dictate all the feed air to be drawn from outside.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 

CenterTree

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
SouthWest-Central PA
PIC looking into the stove bottom with ash pan removed.
 

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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,157
Southern IN
What's the problem, that you need the air kit? Super-tight house? Low stack height?
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,466
South Puget Sound, WA
You are correct the OAK air is not directly connected to a single port which is then ducted to the primaries and secondaries. The stove gets its air from multiple locations for primary, secondary and boost air. I think that air break/gap is intentional. The Canadians or at least PE and John Gulland seem more concerned about a directly connected of an OAK back-drafting or getting overpressured by the wind. The air break reduces this possibility.
 

CenterTree

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
SouthWest-Central PA
You are correct the OAK air is not directly connected to a single port which is then ducted to the primaries and secondaries. The stove gets its air from multiple locations for primary, secondary and boost air. I think that air break/gap is intentional. The Canadians or at least PE and John Gulland seem more concerned about a directly connected of an OAK back-drafting or getting overpressured by the wind. The air break reduces this possibility.
Didn't know that about the "air-break" theory. Interesting.
 

CenterTree

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2008
1,045
SouthWest-Central PA
What's the problem, that you need the air kit? Super-tight house? Low stack height?
Two fold I guess.

First: Cold feet syndrome. Seems like the floor gets a bit cool and we can feel a slight draft moving across the floor from the rooms edge towards the stove. Just slightly.

And second is that I already have a 4 inch hole in the wall directly behind the stove that I want to utilize.;lol


Stove runs VERY well though as it is.
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,157
Southern IN
Cold feet syndrome.
My SIL's house had quite a breeze ripping across the floor. I adjusted the door jambs up to hit the sweeps on the bottoms of the doors, put in some new weatherstripping (kerf style, which was easy,) and it really helped. Not to mention, more heat retained over all and less wood I'll have to process for her. ;)
I still have to tighten up her attic access, I know some heat is being pulled out there.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
17,194
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Actually, the more I look at this, the less sense it make under there. I took the ash pan out and I can see that there is a large metal "baffle" or stopper plate at the very back edge of where the pan would stop. The plate is riveted in place. It is just a shield of some sort.

It seems to me that any type of OAK hooked up to this stove would be FAR from airtight. Air could simple be drawn in from around the inserted pipe. I mean air can come from anywhere along the ash pan void under the stove.

Almost seems like any OAK would be supplying about 60% air from outside, with the rest being sucked in all around the stove bottom/ash pan area. NOTHING is tight enough under there to dictate all the feed air to be drawn from outside.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Some stoves are designed to take 100% of their air from a tight outside air system and some are definitely not. It’s a philosophical choice because some manufacturers just don’t believe in the concept of outside combustion air supply.

Just know that if your oak connection is leaky that cold outside air could actually spill into the living space whenever there is low pressure in the house like when a hood fan is running. Or a dryer.

I like sealed outside air supplies whenever possible.
 
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