Tankless water heat/baseboards?

[eclecticcottage]

We have no central heat in our Old House. While it's not a problem here at the Cottage since we heat with wood and we're happy that way, it's a problem there since we're planning to keep it and use it as a rental. We lived there for 15 years and used two gas stoves, both Lopi. They are still there but we are thinking most renters would prefer central heat. It's never had central heat and there are no good places for duct work. We have no basement and the utility room is SMALL. Basically, there's not much room for whatever we use as a heat source. Electric is expensive as an option, and might scare people away. We have a newer service and it could handle it, but it's not preferable. We have a tankless here for hot water heat and I've heard some could be used for this. I'm looking for thoughts, opinions and ideas here on using one. It's about 800-900 sq ft. 1920's, 1 3/4 story. Blown in insulation in the walls, we used attic blanket in the "attic" (space above the ceiling upstairs, not big enough to be an attic really). Not super tight, not terrible. 10 year old anderson windows.

 

[pen]

With renters, keep it simple would be my advice. Electric.

A little more complicated but cheaper than standard electric baseboards may be a time-of-day meter through the electric company and a few electric storage heat units. I had that in an apartment I lived in and loved them.

pen

 

[Hunderliggur]

I have used a Rennai tanks for 2 years before my boiler. It is now my backup and summer hot water. If you have Natural gas it can work. Electric is cheaper than propane. What about dome of the mini-split ductless heat pump units?

 

[BoilerMan]

I was thinking mini-split as well. The efficiency of tankless is not good with high return temps, they are designed for cold water in and have huge burners with small copper heat exchangers. Wall hung boilers are completly different in HX and burner design.

If you have NG then consider Rinnai direct vented wall furnace, I installed one in an apartment a few years ago before building my house, very quiet.

TS

 

[eclecticcottage]

Electric is expensive here and homes with electric heat sit on the market and sell for less-no one wants it. We figure it won't be much different for renting. Seems mini/multi splits are electric...I am lost on energy ratings for these, we've never used electric heat before. Anyone know much about them? Are they vampires? The BTU ratings are completely throwing me off, they sound so low for the sq ft they cover. The up side would be AC. I am leary of the heat pump though-we do get single digit days, although it's not common. We have been lows in the 20's and highs in the 30's lately, but this year seems just as odd as last year so far. While we aren't living there, we still want an efficient system as a "selling" point. We put in the electric service about 10 years ago, brand new from the pole in. We only used about half the breakers available, we oversized it for the house with a mindset of being able to add on in the future.

We have NG there. The stoves are in the living room (Lopi Heritage Bay, smaller unit) and one bedroom (Lopi Berkshire). We could leave them as secondary heat. They suck for heat costs, we have had pretty high bills with them, but we aren't the kind to have a cold or cool house, hence the wood stove here .

I was also hoping to stay at a little lower cost, but if they are efficient enough they might work.

So I am guessing the general concensus is to stay away from tankless as a heating system?

 

[velvetfoot]

You have natural gas? I'd think you would want to use that.

 

[heaterman]

I do not recommend tankless water heaters for space heating use. The burner "logic" is not appropriate for flows and temperature differentials commonly found in heating applications. In nearly all instances the tankless will not fire near full capacity unless it is working with an in/out temp split of 60-70*.

 

[velvetfoot]

I've heard they make combo units now for heating and hot water.

 

[heaterman]

There is one from a Texas company, I forget the name, that looks like it might actually work. Bear in mind that "they" said regular tankless unit would work great for heating also.

 

[Fred61]

I have a couple mini splits in my house and I wouldn't use them if the outside temperature drops to 40. In my RV all the heat is tied together in one control (heat pumps and gas) and when the outdoor air drops to 40, the gas furnaces automatically switch on.

 

[jebatty]

Since you have NG, and NG stoves, but you think they suck for heating cost, and the house will be rental, and then ultimately "for sale," I would stick with NG and the stoves. I can't imagine that capital cost plus installation plus operating cost for any other heating system for an 800-900 sq ft cottage would pay its way. When the place is ready for sale, do all the cosmetic fix-ups to make it very attractive, have it staged for maximum visual impact on a buyer, and then let the buyer have the heating problem.

 

[eclecticcottage]

You have natural gas? I'd think you would want to use that.

We would...but we can't seem to find a way to.

No basement.

Utility room is big enough for a 30 gallon HWT and stacked "apartment" washer and dryer.

No attic.

We have had heating bills of $2-300 a month at times when it's cold.

As far as sale goes, it is in the future if at all. The house is in a decent location, but the sq ft and layout aren't particularly desirable so we aren't sure if it will keep tenants long term or not. Depending on rental income, taxes and repairs it may or may not pay to keep it. We're looking at atleast 5-10 years in the future if it is put on the market. We're nearly paid off on it now, so we expect to put some $$ into it to get it to a rentable position (finish the little projects we didn't get done while living there, like trim and skirting).

I was thinking that mini/multi splits wouldn't handle this area very well with our temps. Thank you for letting me know your experiance. It's too bad because it's a neat concept for the most part, save the fact that they are all electric.

Are there tankless boilers? We don't have the clearances for a standard boiler, at least I don't think.

We live in a Cottage, it's a little less than 700 sq ft. This is for our "real" house, it was built in the 20's and is a house, not a cottage, unless you consider it one due to the sq ft.

 

[BoilerMan]

If you have NG then consider Rinnai direct vented wall furnace, I installed one in an apartment a few years ago before building my house, very quiet.

Sorry to quote myself but you should look into these. Near perfect fit IMO for NG and no utility space required. They may have changed the model numbers, but the EX17N would be a great fit for 700 sq ft at 17,000 btu/hr.
TS