Teach me to operate my stove properly

[stonehouse]

Hi All.
Looks like this time of year there's tons of newbie questions.
Here's a few more fo y'all to field for me please.

Some Background.
I'm running a brand new Jotul F600 Firelight, Non Cat, in a 200 year old stone house that leaks like crazy.

Here's the questions.

1. How hot should the surface be before I can expect to see continuous secondary burning? I'm seeing some but it isn't steady nor is it complete with all the holes in the tubes lighting up. Right now I'm at about 425 and I'm not seeing any at all.

2. At what temp on startup should I close down the damper? Should I get it up to like 550/600 and then close it down? I've read here people are getting good temp rises from secondary urning after they damper down but i'm not seeing it here.

3. How close to the secondary tubes can I stack wood when building my fire? Is it safe to fill the firebox right up to them?

4. How long should it take to get the stove up to temp? Took me about an hour and 15 minutes to get to 500 this morning. That about right?

5. Do the secondary burn tubes glow sometimes? I saw a bit of a glow with the surface temp at around 475?

Guess that's about all for now, I'll have more for sure. Thanks in advance!

 

[tradergordo]

Just a thought for the Webmaster - but maybe we should create one thread, that is a sticky at the top, called something like "LEARN HOW TO USE YOUR STOVE" that just contains links for various stove models to threads that describe the proper operation and troubleshooting for that model. This might help new stove owners learn how to use their stoves and encourage the experienced veterans to create threads for their stove model with this info.

There's a lot that can be model specific. For example the stoves that use rear secondary combustion chambers run better when the user clears ash and pushs fresh hot coals towards the back of the stove on restarts, models with burn tubes at the top can run better with a top down fire building approach, etc. People also need to know when to damper down, normal operating temps, model specific problems to watch out for, etc. Each model specific thread should also have links to the owners manuals if available.

 

[Todd]

It's hard to say what surface temp will give you secondary burn. The inside firebox temp must reach 1000 degrees before gas and smoke will ignite. When I had my non cats, I use to reload with about an inch or two space between the wood and the tubes. I would burn on medium or high for about 10-15 minutes then turn it down when the wood was good an chared. Temps will vary with wood type and moisture content. Your manual should state stove top temps and overfire temps. I think 500-600 is a good temp for your stove, and 700-800 is probably too hot. Secondary tubes will glow, that is normal, and you won't always see fire jumping out of every hole. There is lots of trial and error with a new stove.

 

[stonehouse]

Thats a good idea for a sticky.
Searching yeilds some information, but it isn't complete by any means.
Thanks for the info about the 1000 degrees for smoke to ignite and the glowing tubes.

 

[Jags]

Thats a good idea for a sticky.
Searching yeilds some information, but it isn't complete by any means.
Thanks for the info about the 1000 degrees for smoke to ignite and the glowing tubes.

Please note: 1000 deg INTERNAL temp. (For some reason I just pictured someone trying to obtain that as a surface temp.)

 

[begreen]

Some Background.
I'm running a brand new Jotul F600 Firelight, Non Cat, in a 200 year old stone house that leaks like crazy.

Welcome, I hope you'll be getting out the caulking real soon. I have the Castine, but some of the principals still apply so I'll try to answer what I can.

Here's the questions.

1. How hot should the surface be before I can expect to see continuous secondary burning? I'm seeing some but it isn't steady nor is it complete with all the holes in the tubes lighting up. Right now I'm at about 425 and I'm not seeing any at all.

About 400-450. You may never see all the holes with flame in front of them at one time. It depends on the amount of unburnt gases in the wood and temp. Once the wood has thoroughly charred and outgassed, there will probably be no visible secondaries.

2. At what temp on startup should I close down the damper? Should I get it up to like 550/600 and then close it down? I've read here people are getting good temp rises from secondary urning after they damper down but i'm not seeing it here.

This will depend on the flue and the wood. How tall is the flue? Is it an interior or exterior (outside wall) chimney? If the wood is not dry enough, there may be poor secondary combustion. But normally, about 550 is a good temp to reduce the air. Again it will also depend on the draft created by the flue. If the temps outside are mild, the draft will be less. This takes practice learning the stove, flue, wood and air control to get it down.

3. How close to the secondary tubes can I stack wood when building my fire? Is it safe to fill the firebox right up to them?

I like to keep it about an inch below the tubes, but wood can be irregular and sometimes an edge will touch the back secondaries.

4. How long should it take to get the stove up to temp? Took me about an hour and 15 minutes to get to 500 this morning. That about right?

Seems a bit slow. I can usually have the stove top at 500 in about 30-45 min depending on the wood and outside temps. But the F600 has more mass. What are you using for kindling? Where are you taking the temperature?

5. Do the secondary burn tubes glow sometimes? I saw a bit of a glow with the surface temp at around 475?

Not that I have seen at that temperature. Perhaps it's reflection of the fire below?

 

[webbie]

Dang, site is getting too big!

The links in my sig are to the QA and to the main articles section, which do have some good info. How to tend a fire in the articles is general, but good. As far as specific stove info, this might be a good add-on to my next remodel of the ratings - which will allow people to update their ratings, etc. - I can add a field with user hints and tips....sort of a dynamic and ongoing advice area.

I'm going to do a few things for starters (to stave off the beast....) - one is to put that front page google search on the Forum area (that uses google to search every doc on this site), AND also start a wiki page or similar which will contain the most popular resources - like fuel cost, hot to burn, etc. - I can change that here and there over the years, if say (for instance) pellets come on strong, or gas, etc.

 

[Dunadan]

Last year was my first season burning, and looking back, I did a lot of things wrong. Most notably, 1) I didn't question early enough, the clearance between the top of my liner and chimney cap. The installer left less than 1" which, as you can guess, severely impacted my getting a good draft, and 2) I stored most of my wood in the garage (in early October) when the garage was still prone to getting quite humid, and between that and the wood drying - from late season rains - my wood was not as dry as it should have been. Both of these items have now been corrected, so my answers assume you have good draft and nice dry wood (like I do now).

1. How hot should the surface be before I can expect to see continuous secondary burning? I’m seeing some but it isn’t steady nor is it complete with all the holes in the tubes lighting up. Right now I’m at about 425 and I’m not seeing any at all.

So far this year, with only a few real burns to experiment, I'm finding on my insert will sustain good secondary burn between 500-600. I'll see some secondary burn in the 400s, but the problem is the temp isn't high enough to sustain them. Invariably, I get a bit of secondary burn, but not enough to keep the temp up, and once the temps start to fall, the secondary burn goes away, and then everything keeps spiraling down until I have a smoldering fire (unless I open air again).

2. At what temp on startup should I close down the damper? Should I get it up to like 550/600 and then close it down? I’ve read here people are getting good temp rises from secondary urning after they damper down but i’m not seeing it here.

Again, so far, I'm leaving my air wide open until temps reach about 600. Last year I would leave it open for a set amount of time (normally 15 minutes) but that didn't work well to get secondary burn. Once I get to about 600, I will shut the air down to about half-way. Notice I didn't say "shut down" because with my insert, when I adjust the air control, I'm not really allowing less air into the stove, what I'm doing is redirecting the air from entering right down at ground level where the fire is, to coming out of the burn tubes. Once I adjust air control by half (for my stove I push the control in to redirect through burn tubes) I have good secondary burn. I'll watch the temps and so long as they don't go down (usually they actually will keep going up with air half in) I'll keep adjusting down by pushing in air control a bit, then watch the temps. I stop adjust air when temp stops between 500 and 600 (but closer to 500 normally). They key is to keep up a good secondary burn, that is heavy enough to keep temps up to keep secondary burn going. I will adjust at this point, and direct more air at fire, if temps start to drop below 500, or when secondary burn goes away because wood is now mainly coals. Then do over again.

3. How close to the secondary tubes can I stack wood when building my fire? Is it safe to fill the firebox right up to them?

I usually get to within 1" or so when trying go get an overnight burn. When I'm around to tend fire, I'll usually only throw in 2-3 splits at a time, so there is a lot of room above wood for secondary burn.

4. How long should it take to get the stove up to temp? Took me about an hour and 15 minutes to get to 500 this morning. That about right?

I'm finding if I build a good first fire, with a bit of kindling, but lots of smaller/medium splits, I can get up to 600 in about 30 minutes.

5. Do the secondary burn tubes glow sometimes? I saw a bit of a glow with the surface temp at around 475?

I've not seen this yet on my stove.

 

[stonehouse]

Thanks for all the info.
I did note Internal Temp of 1000, not external. Good to clarify again though.

The caulking had been out for some time now, problem is not totally the windows though. We get drafts coming right up through spaces between the floorboards even with tons of insulation under there. It's going to take me some years to track them all down I think. I'm on it though.

The flue is about 25-30 feet tall. It's on an outside wall but it's inside the house. Brick chimney with a layer of stone covering the outside of it, flex steel lined. My kindling isn't the best, I'll look into getting something better. I'll also start out with smaller splits. My wood is dry enough.

Glowing tubes may have been reflection, but I didn't think so. I'll keep an eye on it.

Thanks again for the help.
I'll get the hang of it.

 

[begreen]

Good plan. You should have good draft. Maybe even too strong? Smaller splits can make a big improvement for starting. Try 2" splits with the kindling.

Can you post some pictures? I love those old Hudson stone houses. Yours must have quite a history.

 

[stonehouse]

I have a website that has a bit of what I'm doing here with the house.
Hit the restoration button on the right.
I'll attach a few pictures here too.
Still compiling the history. I've only been here a year and there's lots more important stuff to do other than research.
http://www.stonehousemultimedia.com

Draft may be too strong, I'm not sure.
Not too much I can do about it I don't think.
I'm running the stove in the fireplace.

The fireplace is about 70 inches wide.
The stove is piped out the back, then a 6 inch extension, then a T with a cleanout, attached directly to the flue.
Can I put a damper im that 6 inch extension attached directly to the pipe if I need to? Seems like it may be too close to the stove outlet.
The full story of the fireplace is on the website. Huge PITA and cost 5k to get things right.

Some pictures.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

beautiful houe, i always loved the stone house look, and would positively KILL for the real hewn hardwood floors. very nice , fireplace is a masterpiece as well.

 

[Jimbob]

Here's how I do it, works for me....
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/9812/

 

[titan]

That's a beautiful home,much nicer than the generic Bread-boxes of today.That place just oozes character.....sounds like a groan to heat though.

 

[stonehouse]

Thanks for the compliments.
I'm really enjoying it, despite the neverending work.
Yea, a groan to heat.
We have one heat register on the second floor, right at the top of the stairs, center of the house. There's no hall, it's a room with 4 other rooms off it.
We can only use one in the state it's in now, the others we close the doors and they freeze.
There's also a center wall on the first floor that divides the house in two, with only a doorway to get to the dining room and kitchen.
There's supposed to be a wood cooking stove in the kitchen to keep that side warm, but that chimney is screwed as bad as the other was.
I'm thinking of adding some fans to the doorways.
Are they really as quiet as they say?

I'm seeing my secondary burn now.
I didn't know what too look for yesterday.
I saw a vid that showed little flames out of the all the holes in all the tubes. Guess that's pretty rare now that I'm seeing the blue flames in there.
My tubes are glowing, not a reflection.

I'm also noticing that the stove top, single layer I think, is way hotter than where Jotul says to place the thermometer.
I'm learning and It's really warm in here. I'm happy.

This is a great forum, I'm going to stick around.

Here's some pictures of the bad.

Second Bedroom