temporary pellet burner install?

[OhioBurner©]

First time on the forums in ages. I'll try to make a really long story really short: Getting divorced and probably keeping my home. I have 2 wood stoves in it now, and a propane furnace. When propane spiked up last year we burned over $500 worth in 3 weeks. And its forecasted to be another bad winter. I have lost access to the in-laws farms and have no wood cut. Its also too late to be buying wood for this year. And being home by myself wood isn’t really an option - at least on work days my door to door time is 14 hrs and I've never got a burn time close to that. Wood is just not going to work out solo, at least with my schedule, in this big drafty old house, with my current two woodstoves. Propane will probably cost thousands - even when we were burning both stoves all winter we still went through $1k+ in propane just on weekends we weren’t there and the occasional really cold day or the few moderate days in spring/fall. The tank has sat empty in the back yard since last February when the price shot up. Its cheaper now but I'd still rather avoid it entirely. I plan on trying to close up about half the house as well.

I gave thought to using a pellet burner when I saw a TSC add for one for like $800 I think it was (USSC). With a minimal non fancy install I figured it might be an option to get by this winter. Looking on here has me looking for other better options though, and I came across many recommending the Timber Ridge refurb from AMFM... only a couple hundred more. If its a better unit with better service I can swing that. Looking at the 55-TRPAH and vent kit (999+225+hearth pad). If its a bad winter I think it will still pay for itself within the winter.

But here is the catch. I really don't want to be cutting holes in the wall. There is a good chance I'll be trying to move soon (well, maybe next year). I'd like to maybe take it with me too. Or at least put it in the barn once winter is over with. One idea I had was to open and board up a window inside and out with insulation sandwiched within, and put the thimble through that. I know this isn’t very professional, but like I said I'm just looking temporary until spring. And maybe next year do a more permanent install if I stay here, or take it with. I know I'll have to come up with a hearth pad as well. Any thoughts? Another way to hook one up temporarily (I thought about pulling my insert and adapting it to the 6" chimney but figured that wouldn’t work well, plus I might want to use my insert on my off days if I can scrounge up some wood or something).

 

[alternativeheat]

First time on the forums in ages. I'll try to make a really long story really short: Getting divorced and probably keeping my home. I have 2 wood stoves in it now, and a propane furnace. When propane spiked up last year we burned over $500 worth in 3 weeks. And its forecasted to be another bad winter. I have lost access to the in-laws farms and have no wood cut. Its also too late to be buying wood for this year. And being home by myself wood isn’t really an option - at least on work days my door to door time is 14 hrs and I've never got a burn time close to that. Wood is just not going to work out solo, at least with my schedule, in this big drafty old house, with my current two woodstoves. Propane will probably cost thousands - even when we were burning both stoves all winter we still went through $1k+ in propane just on weekends we weren’t there and the occasional really cold day or the few moderate days in spring/fall. The tank has sat empty in the back yard since last February when the price shot up. Its cheaper now but I'd still rather avoid it entirely. I plan on trying to close up about half the house as well.

I gave thought to using a pellet burner when I saw a TSC add for one for like $800 I think it was (USSC). With a minimal non fancy install I figured it might be an option to get by this winter. Looking on here has me looking for other better options though, and I came across many recommending the Timber Ridge refurb from AMFM... only a couple hundred more. If its a better unit with better service I can swing that. Looking at the 55-TRPAH and vent kit (999+225+hearth pad). If its a bad winter I think it will still pay for itself within the winter.

But here is the catch. I really don't want to be cutting holes in the wall. There is a good chance I'll be trying to move soon (well, maybe next year). I'd like to maybe take it with me too. Or at least put it in the barn once winter is over with. One idea I had was to open and board up a window inside and out with insulation sandwiched within, and put the thimble through that. I know this isn’t very professional, but like I said I'm just looking temporary until spring. And maybe next year do a more permanent install if I stay here, or take it with. I know I'll have to come up with a hearth pad as well. Any thoughts? Another way to hook one up temporarily (I thought about pulling my insert and adapting it to the 6" chimney but figured that wouldn’t work well, plus I might want to use my insert on my off days if I can scrounge up some wood or something).

Most install instructions say to stay away from windows by a certain minimum distance, I don't think any suggest using one to vent through. You certainly couldn't direct vent, if you did this at all you would need to put in a vertical rise to get above the window before the outlet. But I don't think you will find anyone suggesting you do this. If you cut the hole in the wall, who is to say the next owner if you sell the house, will not want a stove as well and use the existing vent ? I doubt it will detract from the sale of the house.

 

[Former Farmer]

I am assuming that you have a lathe and plaster interior wall. Correct? What is the exterior?

Cut a hole through the wall. Cut it high enough so when you sell the house, you can hang a picture there hiding it.

 

[TimfromMA]

Having a secondary heating system can actually increase house values. Install the stove, leave it in and add a couple thousand to the selling price of the houe.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Having a secondary heating system can actually increase house values. Install the stove, leave it in and add a couple thousand to the selling price of the houe.

Well like I said I have propane and already 2 wood stoves. There already is a secondary heating.

I guess the other big issue after looking over that side of the house today is that there is no good spot for a permanent pellet burner anyhow. In the dining room area it would only even fit because I'm shoving the table out of the way. It would be a huge eye sore selling the house like that! The other two walls in that room are the kitchen area with cabinets and counters, pantry, and the interior wall is beside the stairway and laundry room on the other side. The hallway that leads to the back door I don’t think is wide enough to put one there either. The only other room is the great room that already has an insert - and 2 story tall ceilings that make it really hard for heat to get back into the kitchen and dining area. I think it'd be silly to have the pellet burner in the same room as the insert. And two walls have windows too close that no way I'd be able to get a spot in there 2' from any, and the remaining exterior wall has an 8' long fish tank up against it, and then the couch in front of the fish tank. I probably should tear the fish tank down and sell it or something, but I don't see that happening before winter sets in.

If I keep the house it might end up in the basement... but for a primary source of heat for the rest of that side of the house the basement isnt going to work, is uninsulated, and not much heat comes up the stairway (I've tried burning a wood stove down there last winter, work for the basment but not much else).

Maybe I should just try to get a loan for propane lol!

 

[BobMA]

Go for the window idea....why not?... I did that in my basement....just need to make sure you adhere to all other clearance requirements...like other windows, doors (usually 4 ft).... Might want to check with your local inspector first....our town inspector uses stove and vent manufacturer's instructions to inspect to or NFPA 211 if manuals don't cover it.

 

[RAVinMetrowest]

Replace 1 wood stove with the pellet stove.

 

[CaptSpiff]

Sorry to hear about your distress. You are definitely in emergency mode and need to get as many items scratched off the "living solo" list in short order.

Line Item A. Get at least two weeks worth of Propane in the Tank. A month if you can swing it. That's "piece of mind" if the pellet stove craps out. Too many things can occur in a single guys life that prevents feeding the stove: anything from a car accident to that hot chic who insists on being taken home (her home). You don't want to fight frozen pipes when you're away 14 hrs a day.

Line Item B. Get one of the stoves with a 60lb hopper. You'll want to be able to burn at 3-4 lbs per hour, and hopper size is key. For the install, if you have double hung windows you're home free. Lower the upper window, tape some 3" fiberglass bats to the outside of the window glass, then cut/fit/screw a sheet of exterior plywood to the outside window frame like you were getting ready for a hurricane. Then box frame out the upper window opening by screwing the framing lumber from the exterior of the plywood. Box out for the thimble and cover the entire interior with another fitted sheet of plywood. Don't skip the paint, and plan on leaning a sheet of 3'x6' painted 5/8" sheetrock as a floating fire protection between the stove back and the wall/window.

Good luck. Remember that Counselors are cheaper than Lawyers, if it can be saved.

 

[Jeff Lawson]

+1 on replacing one of the wood stoves. You can get an adapter to connect right up to the existing stove pipe.

When I installed my stove, I was okay with doing what I thought was good enough. But then I pictured myself standing there with an insurance adjuster. So I changed a few things up.

 

[OhioBurner©]

WE have installed a few stoves where we have cut a hole in the glass pane and just gone straight through it. We have no restriction on this and I can't see why there would be. I cant speak for the US however.

Wow that is an interesting install! But not what I would consider temporary. And with my double hung windows I'm not sure if that would count as being 2' away unless the bottom half of the window is sealed off - at least I think boarding up and sealing/insulating the whole window it really isnt a window anymore.

+1 on replacing one of the wood stoves. You can get an adapter to connect right up to the existing stove pipe.

Well as I said in the original post I'd like to keep the insert an option for the little bit I hope to scrounge up. I suppose I could just give up on that thought and pull it, but its a pain to do that... and requires me getting up on the tall roof and pulling the liner up a few inches, holding it there while I slide out the 550lb Rockland somewhere, then go up and let the liner back down. And getting the Rockland adapter off and a PL adapter on up in the small fireplace, this just all sounds like a pain. But a possibility. The other freestanding stove would be easier to replace, it would be a snap, but I'm shutting that whole side of the house down so dont plan on heating it anyhow (house is like 2700 sqft, my son and I can do with about half of it just fine!). I'd much rather use the half that I'm closing - the one with the freestanding stove - but there is no kitchen on that half.

I love this house and the property is decent though there isnt any woods, but the house is really not setup well for heating! Thats a big part of why I want to look elsewhere. Maybe I need to draw up a floorplan and see if I can get any other ideas going. I'd really like to design a home from scratch, with wood heating in mind (and pellet for a finished basement perhaps).

 

[Lake Girl]

Sorry to hear about your troubles...

The other option would be to buy a pellet insert. If the wood insert can be removed without damaging it, it could be stored until a decision has been made on your next step of whether to keep the house or not.

(broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/55trpepi--epa-certified-pellet-insert--2000552000.html)

 

[alternativeheat]

Just wondering, is there really no wood around ? Even a delivery from another county will be less expensive than this whole conversion thing for one year. Your simplest solution is to find some wood for this winter. I've been through a divorce a long time ago and it was enough to just figure out how to get through the next day, it took a year to figure out some direction in life never mind this complication. So the simpler solution I would think is to find some wood someplace. The stoves are in place already just lacking fuel.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Just wondering, is there really no wood around ? Even a delivery from another county will be less expensive than this whole conversion thing for one year. Your simplest solution is to find some wood for this winter. I've been through a divorce a long time ago and it was enough to just figure out how to get through the next day, it took a year to figure out some direction in life never mind this complication. So the simpler solution I would think is to find some wood someplace. The stoves are in place already just lacking fuel.

Wood will not work for me solo as I've stated above already - burn time no where near 14+ hrs I'd need. And I am not going to mess with lighting a stove off from scratch every time I walk in the door to a cold house. Yes there is tons of wood around. Just about any supplier I have used in the past has burned like crap in the same season. I do plan on getting and burning some wood on days I am off and can fiddle with it. Also going to see if I can find some of those bio bricks or other similar products.

 

[hoverfly]

Personally I would replace one of the wood stoves, don't need a fancy one, just one that is big enough. If it's in good shape $sell it$. Also depending on the venting, you might be able to reuse it in the new install or replace the existing setup with new vent, no new holes to cut. You would also be able to burn both wood and pellets at the same time if you want. Versatility is a good thing to have, also if you can find a source that has wood pallets to get rid of.

 

[alternativeheat]

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Wood will not work for me solo as I've stated above already - burn time no where near 14+ hrs I'd need. And I am not going to mess with lighting a stove off from scratch every time I walk in the door to a cold house. Yes there is tons of wood around. Just about any supplier I have used in the past has burned like crap in the same season. I do plan on getting and burning some wood on days I am off and can fiddle with it. Also going to see if I can find some of those bio bricks or other similar products.

The key is to not walk into a cold house, that's what the propane is there for. The stove snuffs out, the propane takes over . The wood takes the heavy curse off the propane bill. I did this for years but with oil, first with wood then with coal. Countless times I re-lit those stoves, I mean countless. You do what you have to do in challenging times, that simple to me. And there is really nothing to lighting a wood stove anyway, you should try that with coal, you just do it that's all. Two ways to look at it though I guess. In one it keeps you busy till spring lol !! The other you get busy with an install now. Pellets stoves are not hands off you know ? You will have weekly cleanings you don't have with wood and possibly a daily routine with some brands, in fact most brands. It's not like you fire it off and away you go to work fat dumb and happy. They give you more grace period yes.

 

[OhioBurner©]

I went ahead and drew up a floorplan of my house fwiw. Not sure if anyone can spot any other opportunities but anyway here it is:

Top floorplan is main level, the one below it is the upper level. Drawn best I could to scale, 1 square = 2 feet. I did forget to draw several windows, that will be on next revision. But all the critical stuff is there.

I crossed out (yellow) the half of the house I was going to shut off for the winter.

In red arrows is my 2 existing woodburners, and red X where I was thinking of the temporary pellet stove through the window in dining area.

The only other spot I could see it possibly go is on the left wall of the great room, but it seems silly to me to put that right within a few feet of my insert. And I don't really want to mess with the insert, and have it functional for burns when its my days off.

Then again this all might be pointless. I'm coming to realize that it would probably be well into heating season until my wife moves out... might not be able to shut that half of the house down.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Ok so I had some discussions with wife. Doesn't sound like she has any interest in whats on the market right now. Not to say something wont pop up tomorrow she likes... but as I said in last post it would be well into heating season I figure before she moves out. If that is the case the whole house will remain open (she uses downstairs bedroom on right side of house for her home office, I use the bathroom next to it as 'my' bathroom and the bedroom above it currently.

If I keep the whole house open it would be really easy to pull the freestanding stove that's there and add a pellet stove. Hearth already there, chimney already there (5.5" liner I installed a couple yrs ago, with 6" stovepipe through the thimble). I'd just need to adapt the 6" stovepipe down to the pellet stove, and hook up an OAK, probably like my original idea through the nearby window there.

Searching for vent pipe adapters, I wasn't finding much to go 3" pellet -> 6" stovepipe. I did find this... is this what I need? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VZ5PA6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A22BC1FJGECFCG any other suggestions? What is the absolute minimum what I can vent with... use existing horizontal 6" pipe and 90º elbow from the thimble, then 6"-3" adapter, then around 36" (possibly with addition of an adjustable length piece) 3" pipe to a 3" elbow to go into stove. Will an elbow direct connect to an 55-TRPAH? Or do you need a special piece for the connection?

I've got the next 2 weeks off - hoping to order soon to get it and install by end of vacation. I think one way or another I'll be able to hook up and use it, so I'll go ahead and order soon, just not sure on the specific pieces I need for vent pipe.

Just for reference here is the stove I'd be replacing and its hearth, etc (Hearthstone Shelburne):

 

[OhioBurner©]

Alright so I pulled the trigger today and ordered the 55-TRPAH from AMFM. Getting close to heating season so no time to waste.

I'll try to figure out the venting over the next couple weeks I have off. Looks like I can probably get everything I need at the local HD... as long as the 3"-6" adapter they have will adapt to the stovepipe above and not to some special pipe. Looking at HD's site I could possibly get what I need for as little as $134 I think so with the $999 stove, included OAK, and existing hearth & venting I should have pretty good bang for buck. Got to figure out the OAK hook up, might try my through window idea from earlier just for the OAK this winter... that window that's right there by the wood stack in the pic.