Testing the new cat

[Todd]

I wonder if the Blaze King's need a different scoop or screen in front of the s/s cats to keep the fly ash from plugging up the cat? Probably why Woodstock made this change? I know very little ash if any gets through the new Woodstock s/s scoop.

 

[Todd]

I have engaged my SS cat at 180ish stove top and had it light off. In fact, I wonder with these SS cats, given their resistance to thermal shock, if you can engage them at ANY temperature knowing that when the stove gets hot enough, they will fire off. The reason I say that is I've had the cat, at low stove top temps, light off secondaries even in bypass mode.

Bill

Good question, I've been thinking the same thing. I think from a cold start up it would probably be best to keep it in the bypass for a good 20 minutes just to get that chimney warmed up for a better pull but reloads in a warm stove I don't see any reason to wait if you have good wood.

 

[ecocavalier02]

My S steel one plugged pretty fast when I was burning spruce, finer honey comb, I had to remove it to vacuum it out.
Got a ceramic & now have the SS for my spare.
The ceramic has larger holes & it lets the smaller ash/sparks pass thru better.

Dennis, I thought I read on one of your posts, a while back, that the ceramic combusters were better?
Are you testing the SS ones?

after reading this i think ill stick with the ceramic one. i thought i had heard that other people with the bk had trouble with it getting clogged.

 

[Todd]

My S steel one plugged pretty fast when I was burning spruce, finer honey comb, I had to remove it to vacuum it out.
Got a ceramic & now have the SS for my spare.
The ceramic has larger holes & it lets the smaller ash/sparks pass thru better.

Dennis, I thought I read on one of your posts, a while back, that the ceramic combusters were better?
Are you testing the SS ones?

after reading this i think ill stick with the ceramic one. i thought i had heard that other people with the bk had trouble with it getting clogged.

If I had a Blaze King I would probably stick to the ceramic cat as well until they changed their protective screen to something with a smaller diameter. Here's a picture of the BK screen, pretty large holes compared to the Woodstock s/s mesh screen pictured below.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php?ACT=24&fid=2&aid=59964_1u0Ih4wOFaVhE4i3vGPR&board_id=1

 

[Backwoods Savage]

My S steel one plugged pretty fast when I was burning spruce, finer honey comb, I had to remove it to vacuum it out.
Got a ceramic & now have the SS for my spare.
The ceramic has larger holes & it lets the smaller ash/sparks pass thru better.

Dennis, I thought I read on one of your posts, a while back, that the ceramic combusters were better?
Are you testing the SS ones?

after reading this i think ill stick with the ceramic one. i thought i had heard that other people with the bk had trouble with it getting clogged.

Geeze Bobby, I don't remember that. But then, I don't believe half the things I used to believe. :lol:

I do remember a year ago at Woodstock when I was shown the steel cats and wondering about them but found no need to buy one at the time. But when our cat went last spring I knew we'd get one. We did finish out the spring with the old cat which harmed nothing. Then when we got home from Woodstock this year and I took the old cat out, it just crumbled all by itself. Good thing we got the new one. I'll be anxious to see how this thing performs, especially because we did not get the new screen, but if it needs changing we will change.

 

[Flatbedford]

I switched to the SS cat mid season last year. Huge improvement. I bought the SS scoop at the open house and installed it last week. We haven't had a fire yet.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

You haven't fired up yet because you are still hot from the open house.

 

[Flatbedford]

My wife thought we might have needed a fire last night. I told her that maybe we should close the windows first and see if we still need it. Soon...

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Steve, that might work. :lol:

 

[Woody Stover]

In fact, I wonder with these SS cats, given their resistance to thermal shock, if you can engage them at ANY temperature knowing that when the stove gets hot enough, they will fire off. The reason I say that is I've had the cat, at low stove top temps, light off secondaries even in bypass mode.

It seems to me that if you run smoke through the combustor when it's not hot enough to burn, you may be depositing creosote in there. When it finally lights off, I'm wondering if the ash from the burned creosote will stick to the channels in the combustor more tenaciously than fly ash would, and won't suck out of there when you vacuum...

 

[Todd]

In fact, I wonder with these SS cats, given their resistance to thermal shock, if you can engage them at ANY temperature knowing that when the stove gets hot enough, they will fire off. The reason I say that is I've had the cat, at low stove top temps, light off secondaries even in bypass mode.

It seems to me that if you run smoke through the combustor when it's not hot enough to burn, you may be depositing creosote in there. When it finally lights off, I'm wondering if the ash from the burned creosote will stick to the channels in the combustor more tenaciously than fly ash would, and won't suck out of there when you vacuum...

Good point, I wouldn't do this on a cold startup but an already warm stove with a good coal bed may be ok. Premium dry wood would also be required.

 

[geoxman]

I have used the ceramic ones for over 20 years in the defiant encore and never thought to try a SS one until i got the new/used FA288CCL. I have had 4 fires so far and I am very impressed with the lower igniting temp and burn. I bought mine from woodstock for the same price as a new ceramic one. Time will tell but so far I like it. good luck

 

[bogydave]

I think I get the point of the SS ones, They activate sooner, the metal conducts the heat better than ceramic & the honeycomb is a smaller diameter & thinner walled.
My SS one that clogs with ash, (even if I had a screen, the screen would clog requiring vacuuming it or clearing the screen) clogged when I started burning spruce. That made me think the type of wood may have some relationship (flying ash size & volume) & some woods would work better with it than others.
I haven't had clogging trouble with the ceramic one burning spruce (or birch). Since I had the clogging problem with the SS one, I vacuum the face of it off on the days I empty ashes from the stove. Knowing to do that may have prevented the problem I had with the SS one. The SS may be better & just require a little more maintenance, but I'm glad I changed mine, found it to be OK & now have it for a spare. They are not going to be $$ cheaper next year.
Going to be a good test & nice to have Dennis's experience with both types to give us "the real world test results".
Some good pictures of the clogged SS one here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/70546/

 

[jdinspector]

Yeah, I think you will like the new s/s cat, much quicker light offs. You could probably get away with engaging under 200 stove top from what I've seen from my probe thermometer, 15-20 minutes and I'm there from a cold start.

Todd, I bought a catalytic thermometer (condar) and installed it this evening. Some information about that below. But first, my experience drilling through the fireview top to install the thermo.

I intentionally used a worn masonry (carbide tipped) bit thinking that slower would be better. The stove top was about 125 degrees. I drilled slowly and drilled through the stone stove top in about 10 seconds! Soapstone is SOFT. From there, the little sleeve slipped in the hole and the thermo in the sleeve. Very easy to do.

Now, after starting a fire from a few coals in the firebox, I got the catalytic up to 500 light off temp in about 20 minutes. The surface thermo was saying about 175 degrees. I closed the bypass and am watching the cat probe thermo go up, up, up. Amazing that I could go to catalytic so quickly. This is good information, as there are frequent times when I reload a warm (but not hot) stove and have had to wait for the 250 degree stove top temps. Now I can go to bypass faster. I'll be interested in how I can operate the stove with this additional information.

Don't be afraid to drill into your Keystone. Easy to do.

 

[Todd]

Yeah, I think you will like the new s/s cat, much quicker light offs. You could probably get away with engaging under 200 stove top from what I've seen from my probe thermometer, 15-20 minutes and I'm there from a cold start.

Todd, I bought a catalytic thermometer (condar) and installed it this evening. Some information about that below. But first, my experience drilling through the fireview top to install the thermo.

I intentionally used a worn masonry (carbide tipped) bit thinking that slower would be better. The stove top was about 125 degrees. I drilled slowly and drilled through the stone stove top in about 10 seconds! Soapstone is SOFT. From there, the little sleeve slipped in the hole and the thermo in the sleeve. Very easy to do.

Now, after starting a fire from a few coals in the firebox, I got the catalytic up to 500 light off temp in about 20 minutes. The surface thermo was saying about 175 degrees. I closed the bypass and am watching the cat probe thermo go up, up, up. Amazing that I could go to catalytic so quickly. This is good information, as there are frequent times when I reload a warm (but not hot) stove and have had to wait for the 250 degree stove top temps. Now I can go to bypass faster. I'll be interested in how I can operate the stove with this additional information.

Don't be afraid to drill into your Keystone. Easy to do.

Drilled through mine about 2 months ago. Didn't have to go through the soapstone, I went through the top venting plate. I also have found quick light offs reaching cat temp in 15-20 minutes while the stove top is only around 150. Let us know your cat temps compared to your stove top. I may for go the stove top temps all together and just watch the cat probe.

 

[ecocavalier02]

I will be buying a new cat next month and am still up in the air over getting a steel one yet. think im going to. but just curious to see how you like it.

How old is yours and how many cords?

5yrs and +- 35 cord and all is good. Must be the pine.

yeah i want to have any extra one but last year i was cleaning it and it was a little warm still and i hit it with the end of my frekon vaccum and took a little chunk out of it. it still works but i want another one on hand.

 

[jdinspector]

Yeah, I think you will like the new s/s cat, much quicker light offs. You could probably get away with engaging under 200 stove top from what I've seen from my probe thermometer, 15-20 minutes and I'm there from a cold start.

Todd, I bought a catalytic thermometer (condar) and installed it this evening. Some information about that below. But first, my experience drilling through the fireview top to install the thermo.

I intentionally used a worn masonry (carbide tipped) bit thinking that slower would be better. The stove top was about 125 degrees. I drilled slowly and drilled through the stone stove top in about 10 seconds! Soapstone is SOFT. From there, the little sleeve slipped in the hole and the thermo in the sleeve. Very easy to do.

Now, after starting a fire from a few coals in the firebox, I got the catalytic up to 500 light off temp in about 20 minutes. The surface thermo was saying about 175 degrees. I closed the bypass and am watching the cat probe thermo go up, up, up. Amazing that I could go to catalytic so quickly. This is good information, as there are frequent times when I reload a warm (but not hot) stove and have had to wait for the 250 degree stove top temps. Now I can go to bypass faster. I'll be interested in how I can operate the stove with this additional information.

Don't be afraid to drill into your Keystone. Easy to do.

Drilled through mine about 2 months ago. Didn't have to go through the soapstone, I went through the top venting plate. I also have found quick light offs reaching cat temp in 15-20 minutes while the stove top is only around 150. Let us know your cat temps compared to your stove top. I may for go the stove top temps all together and just watch the cat probe.

It looks like on the upswing the cat temps are about 2.5 times the stovetop readings. However, I just came back from the high school football game (I love friday night lights!) and the cat temp is around 600, while the stovetop temps are 400. This was about 1/2 load. Looks like the cat loses temp quickly, while the stove stays even. I expected that- the directions from Condar actually contain a graph which shows similar. Will reload shortly.

This is interesting- having cat, stovetop and flue temps all available. It looks a little geeky though! 3 thermometers about a foot apart from eachother.

 

[weatherguy]

Other than lighting off quicker, what other advantage is there to a ss cat? Does it have a longer life?
Couldnt us BK owners make our own screen similar to what Woodstock has?

 

[leeave96]

Woodstock should make this top cat an option. A lot of owners might like to monitor the cat temp, but shudder at the thought of drilling their stove! Woodstock could do this and for the homeowner, it's a bolt on item - no guess work as to the probe location or potential of fouling-up the soapstone when drilling it out or the cast beneath it.

Bill

 

[Todd]

Other than lighting off quicker, what other advantage is there to a ss cat? Does it have a longer life?
Couldnt us BK owners make our own screen similar to what Woodstock has?

Yes, suppose to have longer life, resistant to thermo shock and potassium poisoning. But I've also read keeping the cat under 1600 prolongs life as well, thus my obsession with a cat probe.