Thinking of replacing insert with longer burning Woodstock, BK, ?

[OhioBurner©]

Time for me to ask the question of which new stove to buy. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and with the free shipping sale at Woodstock the timing is right. To make a long story short my wife and I are ending our marriage and I won't have anyone home to reload the stove during my workday. The Rockland can get decent 8hr burns, and I can relite after 12 hours using a large load of EcoBricks (though not really any heat left the last couple hours) but my workday is 14hrs door to door (minimum, not including stopping for groceries, dinner, picking up my son, etc.) so a stove that can get be 14-15hrs or more is needed. Tired of coming home to a cold stove I have to re-lite from scratch and house in the low 50's or even upper 40's. The Rockland really can't keep up with the heat loss of this house during the coldest month or two of winter, even with the pellet stove in an adjacent room and feeding the stove while I'm home all day.

House is around 2400 sqft finished I believe, and half of it was built in 1900 with a cape cod style upstairs that I am working on insulating. I'm unsure if the downstairs walls are insulated either. The new side, with the large great room the stove is in is 1990 but done cheaply with thin walls (2x4) and lots of drafts. I plan on tackling what bit of insulation and air sealing I can do myself, but nothing extreme since I'd rather move than sink too much $ in this place. I'd like to move in ~2 years but could stay up to 9 more years until my son is done with school so I am not so limited on where to move.

If I knew for sure I'd move within a couple years I'd just bite the bullet with propane. But I'm not sure. And I could always take the stove with me, I might even keep the Rockland to reinstall it when I list the house.

Here are some pictures:

The hearth ledge is 16.5" deep also.

Originally we didn't want to mod the hearth so the Rockland was the largest unit that could fit. I think current belief is its around 2 1/4 cuft firebox. Also it radiates little heat. Most of the heat goes straight up, and even 5-6 feet in front of the stove is quite cold on those cold days. I am assuming a freestanding stove will radiate more heat and better warm the 18' high room?

What my idea is to simply cut a hole in the carpet (its trashed and needs replaced at some point anyhow) put down a sheet of durock with brick and mortar on in to match the current hearth best I can. Perhaps make it easily removable to put the insert back in when I go to sell the house. The stove will sit in front of the current 11" tall hearth. I have to pull the cast iron trim off to be sure, but pretty sure the top of the fireplace opening is 26 1/4". So the new stove needs to be able to clear a horizontal run of 37" minus the thickness of the new hearth.

Currently 6" double walled duravent liner (around 22' I think). Bottom few feet is insulated flex, I assume I can pull off the stove connector and add an elbow or tee.

The BK King would probably be the first choice for performance (though last choice for looks). However I assume its not going to work with a 6" Duravent exhaust. In fact, if I recall from reading the Princess manual it has to have like a 3' rise before horizontal? Does that mean its out too? I've been leaning towards Woodstock anyhow, and this free shipping deal makes it a sweet deal. I see both the IS and PH can horizontal vent so shouldn’t have any issues with my hearth set-up. I love the looks of the PH! But like the larger firebox size of the IS. Some have said with the newer IS there are some design improvements as well including things like the air control and ability to idle lower with better control? The price and customizability is sure nice too.

Any other stoves I should be looking at? I guess my overall criteria is most importantly the largest stoves that can burn 14+ hours, and hook to horizontal 6" flue that’s no higher than 37" minus hearth pad thickness. Any advice appreciated, thanks!

~Tristan

 

[prezes13]

First of all beautiful fireplace, second sorry to hear about your marriage. If I was in your shoes I thnk I would go with the hybrid progress. I love bk stoves but other than ashford I don't think other of their stoves would go with your decor. 2400 sf is a lot to heat plus you have very tall ceiling.

 

[begreen]

I am concerned that changing the hearth may lessen the resale value of the house. Some people want a real fireplace. Have you considered a BK Princess insert? That would only require a hearth extension pad in front of the current hearth which could be removed in summer. It would be much less work and you will still have the desired long burn times.

PS: Is there a block-off plate at the damper level already installed?

Changing the stove will not prevent heat from pocketing up at the high ceiling. There is a lot more cubic ftg to heat with most of the warmth staying in the upper third of the room. Ceiling fans will help, but cathedral ceiling rooms can be a problem to heat.

 

[Rearscreen]

If it were me right now in your situation, and I'm pretty crazy, I'd get a Woodstock, (simply because I love mine and cook on it all of the time), I'd get a welder to make up a pair of front legs that extend down to a hearth pad. Not the prettiest thing, but, since Woodstock has a water jet cnc, they could possibly make decorative legs! And when it comes time to leave, just remove everything and reinsert the insert.

 

[prezes13]

BG you know I love bk stoves and I respect your knowledge and expirience, but don't you think the princess wouldn't have enough firepower for 2400sf?

 

[aansorge]

I'd say go princess insert or Summit insert and get what you can out of them. They should tie you over with enough coals for an easy restart and put a big dent in you heating bill. They also won't require any real change in your current setup. Both seem to burn longer than the competition. Don't necessarily focus on 100 % wood heat (although I do!)

Keep on insulating!

 

[Grisu]

I am not sure if you will find any stove that will give you 15 hrs of burn time and be able to heat your home. Even a BK King may need to be burned at least at medium to heat that place and therefore will struggle to give you the 15 hrs you want. If your goal is to just have coals when you come back that could be possible. Nevertheless, I doubt a 6" stove will be enough. My suggestion would be to switch to an 8" liner and either put in a Kuma Sequoia insert without modifying the hearth or a Hearthstone Equinox with a new hearth. If you want to stay with a 6" liner get a large insert knowing it will need to be supplemented. PE Summit, Quadrafire 5100, Regency 3100, Lopi Freedom, Osburn 2400 would be potential options. As you have a nice interior fireplace, the difference between an insert and a freestanding stove will be minimal when you have a proper block-off plate. Once you have "soaked" that masonry with heat you will get it to radiate a nice warmth.

 

[Tenn Dave]

If you are going to be selling that house in the next year or so, I would not alter the hearth. Think about resale value.

 

[BrotherBart]

BG you know I love bk stoves and I respect your knowledge and expirience, but don't you think the princess wouldn't have enough firepower for 2400sf?

Don't know why not. True tested 40,000 BTU output for ten hours. I heat 2,500 sq. ft. with for sure not that much constant output and no blower. Yeah I know, I ain't in Ohio. But minus five here was the same as minus five anywhere else.

 

[JA600L]

I have a thought. I don't know if it's valid or not.

Let's say that you can't find a stove that gives you 14 hours of REAL heat, what's the next best thing?

I wonder how a soapstone stove like the Progress Hybrid would do for that. If it would release the most heat after the fire goes out.
Just a thought. I have no experience with it.

The temperature swing of a steel stove might not work as well. IDK.

 

[BrotherBart]

That is why I was thinking BK Princess. That 40K BTU output is level for 10 hours due to the cat burn and thermostatic control. With the blower delivering it out into the living space.

 

[JA600L]

Maybe you could compliment it with a thermostatically controlled space heater on the opposite end just to offer a little help so temperatures don't swing as much when the fire goes out.

 

[begreen]

BG you know I love bk stoves and I respect your knowledge and expirience, but don't you think the princess wouldn't have enough firepower for 2400sf?

The main advantage is that the BK projects more out onto the hearth for better heating and it will have the long burn times at a steady heat output that he needs. The Princess insert can do this without a demolition project that might affect buyer appeal of the home.

Heating the house 100% with wood is a whole nuther issue compounded by the 18' ceiling. At that point the difference between a 2.8 and a 3.0 cf stove is trivial. If there is no block-off plate in place that is something I would definitely add to improve heat output.

 

[Babaganoosh]

I'd move to a smaller house. That's a lot of space to heat for one guy and one child.

That being said I like the idea about putting some long ass legs in the ideal steel sounds interesting.

 

[weatherguy]

The princess insert is 2.54 but if you burn it low and fill the box you should have some coals for a relight when you get home.

 

[begreen]

The Princess insert is 2.85 cu ft according to BK. Burning low and slow it will have coals after 24 hrs. according to most reports.
(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-princess-insert.html)

 

[weatherguy]

The Princess insert is 2.85 cu ft according to BK. Burning low and slow it will have coals after 24 hrs. according to most reports.
(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-princess-insert.html)

Don't think that's right BG, I'm not sure sure about the 24 hours either, I did get some long burn with mine in shoulder season but never made the 24 hour mark.

(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-inserts.html)

 

[begreen]

Burn time will vary with the stove installation, fuel and operator. I think for the OP 12 hrs of good steady heat would suffice.

 

[Grisu]

BK should maybe check its website to make sure its specs agree with each other: (broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/PDF/brochures/en/current/wood/83651_BK_Briar_Princ_Insert_Brch_Final.pdf) and

Heats 1,200 – 2,500 Square Feet
27 Hour Low Burn Times
Thermostatically Controlled
2.54 Cubic Foot Firebox
Max Heat Input 413,567 BTUs
(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-inserts.html)

When a Rockland stoked all day can barely keep up, I have my doubts the Princess will provide sufficient heat for 12 hours or more.

The Rockland really can't keep up with the heat loss of this house during the coldest month or two of winter, even with the pellet stove in an adjacent room and feeding the stove while I'm home all day.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Thanks for the replies fellas! Let me try to respond to a few quick before I sign off for tonight...

The main advantage is that the BK projects more out onto the hearth for better heating and it will have the long burn times at a steady heat output that he needs. The Princess insert can do this without a demolition project that might affect buyer appeal of the home.
Heating the house 100% with wood is a whole nuther issue compounded by the 18' ceiling. At that point the difference between a 2.8 and a 3.0 cf stove is trivial. If there is no block-off plate in place that is something I would definitely add to improve heat output.

I honestly hadn't thought of replacing the insert with another insert due to the tight space & at the time we put in the biggest that would fit (among other things like wanting more radiant, cooking, less need for blower etc.). I'll have to check the manual for the princess for fireplace opening I did not consider that yet. However unless its really going to be awesome I'd hate to do all the to swap to something only marginally better.

There will be no demolition with any of my options. Only adding a hearth extension, and one that is simple brick and mortar on durock that can be easily taken up later if I decide to take my stove with me when I sell.

PS: Is there a block-off plate at the damper level already installed?

Yep

I'd get a Woodstock, (simply because I love mine and cook on it all of the time), I'd get a welder to make up a pair of front legs that extend down to a hearth pad.

Not sure if I follow you. Why would I need additional legs? I'd want the tallest option for legs, but I would think that would be fine. Yeah, I'd love to be able to cook on a stove again. Last 3 I couldn't.

I'd say go princess insert or Summit insert and get what you can out of them. They should tie you over with enough coals for an easy restart and put a big dent in you heating bill. They also won't require any real change in your current setup. Both seem to burn longer than the competition. Don't necessarily focus on 100 % wood heat (although I do!)

Summit definitely wont fit. Looked at Princess quickly but the manual was confusing, will try to find the dimensions tomorrow and measure. And even struggling this year I am 100% wood (well, and a space heater or two in the bedrooms/kitchen when really cold).

If you want to stay with a 6" liner get a large insert knowing it will need to be supplemented. PE Summit, Quadrafire 5100, Regency 3100, Lopi Freedom, Osburn 2400 would be potential options. As you have a nice interior fireplace, the difference between an insert and a freestanding stove will be minimal when you have a proper block-off plate. Once you have "soaked" that masonry with heat you will get it to radiate a nice warmth.

I really don't want to pull my flue out and buy another. Well I checked quick a couple of those are extremely tight but may fit, but the burn times look pretty bad, even worse than what I already have. I do have a block off plate and it made little difference, but hard to say with any accuracy. I'm pretty confident a free standing stove would be much better than my flush insert. With the pellet stove running on the old side of the house during colder temps the wood stove would be only heating about 1/2 of my 2400sqft just for clarification. If its much above freezing I can get away with 1 or the other, but the opposite end of the house does get a bit cool.

If you are going to be selling that house in the next year or so, I would not alter the hearth. Think about resale value.

I don't plan on modifying it, just adding a hearth pad in front of the current one that will only be secured by a few screws that I can remove later. However leaving the whole thing alone is just as likely as any of my other options so far.

but don't you think the princess wouldn't have enough firepower for 2400sf?
Don't know why not. True tested 40,000 BTU output for ten hours.

That may be a slight improvement but I'm not sure its enough or better than a freestanding IS or PH? What I need is 50% more than 10 hrs... if I can't get it I'm more inclined just to leave it alone. And I have a pellet stove also covering half of that sqft.
.

 

[OhioBurner©]

I have a thought. I don't know if it's valid or not.

Let's say that you can't find a stove that gives you 14 hours of REAL heat, what's the next best thing?

I wonder how a soapstone stove like the Progress Hybrid would do for that. If it would release the most heat after the fire goes out.
Just a thought. I have no experience with it.

The temperature swing of a steel stove might not work as well. IDK.

I see you have the IS, and seeing how you haven't suggested it can I assume you don't think it will keep up? It is the largest of all I have really considered so far and what I was leaning towards. Steel... yeah my current stove is steel (don't let the cast iron trim fool you) so I'm familiar and used to that. I don't really consider that to be a big deal, its all btu's that will end up in the house, delayed reaction from stone or quicker heat from steel. I'm not necessarily looking for a 600 degree stove for 14hrs, but decent heat for 10-12 with a hot coal bed that I can throw full size splits on in 14-15hrs and not baby it would be good.

 

[JA600L]

The Ideal Steel will handle that no problem. I wasn't sure exactly what you were hoping for. I am away from it for 11 hours everyday. No problems.

I always try to get away with loading less wood too.

 

[Rearscreen]

Not sure if I follow you. Why would I need additional legs? I'd want the tallest option for legs, but I would think that would be fine. Yeah, I'd love to be able to cook on a stove again. Last 3 I couldn't.

I guess I am assuming that your raised hearth doesn't stick out far enough for the front legs, 16.5"

 

[Tenn Dave]

I don't plan on modifying it, just adding a hearth pad in front of the current one that will only be secured by a few screws that I can remove later. However leaving the whole thing alone is just as likely as any of my other options so far.

In that case, by all means consider the WS Progress Hybrid. I have mine installed in a large room with cathedral ceilings and it does a wonderful job of heating the house for 14+ hour burns. I usually choose to reload on a 12 hour cycle because it fits into my schedule, but I have gone beyond 18 hours and still had enough of a coal bed to reload the stove (at 18 hours the stove top temp was below 200* but the soapstone was still very warm to the touch). And unlike like some other long burn time stoves, this beauty puts out some real heat. And in a very attractive room that you have, you should compliment it with a very handsome stove. (As with any stove, your results will vary based on local climate and house variables).

How does the Progress Hybrid stack up against other wood stoves?

 

[OhioBurner©]

I guess I am assuming that your raised hearth doesn't stick out far enough for the front legs, 16.5"

Oh I see. I was just going to put the entire stove on the lower part in front of the existing hearth for a freestander. I don't think that will work the way you have drawn... I just measured the height of my fireplace opening after taking the cast iron surround off to be sure and its only 25.5" so I don't think I could place an IS or PH even with short legs on the raised hearth, their flue exits are too high.

I'm not sure sure about the 24 hours either, I did get some long burn with mine in shoulder season but never made the 24 hour mark.
(broken link removed to http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-inserts.html)

Sounds like you had a Princess insert? If that is correct, how would you compare that to the PH if you've had both?