Timmmmbbbeerrrr! Oops!

[Stump_Branch]

maybe a dumb question. but any real danger in mirroring the classic notch cut? I find it a combination of an open face cut in that it allows the tree to 'jump off the stump' i find it works quite well for getting the thing down quick and not letting it have the time to move around. other then having a trickier time maing an inclined cut low to the ground its the same as a classic. i also always use wedges. even if they arent 'needed' to me its better to have them and not need them then to need them and not have them or have enough time to use them.

 

[smokinj]

maybe a dumb question. but any real danger in mirroring the classic notch cut? I find it a combination of an open face cut in that it allows the tree to 'jump off the stump' i find it works quite well for getting the thing down quick and not letting it have the time to move around. other then having a trickier time maing an inclined cut low to the ground its the same as a classic. i also always use wedges. even if they arent 'needed' to me its better to have them and not need them then to need them and not have them or have enough time to use them.

none at all just takes a little more time. You sound like me with wedges. West coast style does an under cut wedge and would really throw me for a loop.

 

[Stump_Branch]

maybe a dumb question. but any real danger in mirroring the classic notch cut? I find it a combination of an open face cut in that it allows the tree to 'jump off the stump' i find it works quite well for getting the thing down quick and not letting it have the time to move around. other then having a trickier time maing an inclined cut low to the ground its the same as a classic. i also always use wedges. even if they arent 'needed' to me its better to have them and not need them then to need them and not have them or have enough time to use them.

none at all just takes a little more time. You sound like me with wedges. West coast style does an under cut wedge and would really throw me for a loop.

that undercut is what I think I am referring to. works nice. the last tree I dropped was a white oak, maybe 22" in dia. give or take i had to switch sides so i know is was more than my 20". any how i actaully got the chance to 'wedge' the tree over that was pretty neat as well.

 

[smokinj]

maybe a dumb question. but any real danger in mirroring the classic notch cut? I find it a combination of an open face cut in that it allows the tree to 'jump off the stump' i find it works quite well for getting the thing down quick and not letting it have the time to move around. other then having a trickier time maing an inclined cut low to the ground its the same as a classic. i also always use wedges. even if they arent 'needed' to me its better to have them and not need them then to need them and not have them or have enough time to use them.

none at all just takes a little more time. You sound like me with wedges. West coast style does an under cut wedge and would really throw me for a loop.

that undercut is what I think I am referring to. works nice. the last tree I dropped was a white oak, maybe 22" in dia. give or take i had to switch sides so i know is was more than my 20". any how i actaully got the chance to 'wedge' the tree over that was pretty neat as well.

Yep Its awesome. I feel much safer bringing a bigger tree down with wedges. Smaller tree with a big landing zone I still get one wedge in but drive straight through the henge.

 

[midwestcoast]

Sounds like you've pretty much figured out what went wrong. Putting it all together as I see it:
You're original notch looks fine (about 1/3rd of the diam from looking at cut on the base of the trunk). The back-cut was kinda crooked and about even with the bottom of the notch instead of above it. Things were still looking not too bad, but then the tree leans back on the saw. You use the wedges to get the saw out, but don't have enough lift to push the tree over. You decide to deepen the facecut. This was a big no-no IMO and I bet you felt uncomfortable doing it. Listen to that feeling, it means you know something is wrong and you should stop & think it through. Clearing that escape route was a good idea, but assumed you'd be behind the tree when it fell so it may be useless now. The outcomes of cutting into the notch could be: 1. the tree is about to fall in the direction originally intended, but hinge wood is holding it so when you cut into the face the saw gets pinched as the tree falls toward it & you are in a bad position to get out of the way. 2. The tree is fairly balanced & stays up 'till you cut through the hinge and then it's anybodies guess what happens. It could spin or slip off the stump any which way :gulp: 3. The tree is sitting heavily on the wedges & falls backward when the hinge is cut, which is probably the safest outcome here.
So you miss-read the lean, which I think will happen to any cutter until we gain a lot of experience. The real problem I see was that you didn't have any felling wedges. Once those steel wedges are in there you can't get the saw anywhere near & the options were: go get equipment, leaving the thing teetering there for the wind to take down, or cut through the hinge. With a few plastic felling wedges stacked I bet you would have been fine. They are like 6 or 8 bucks a piece. Not sure about stacking the metal wedges. I've found Oregon ones at Menards and Lowes if you don't have a saw shop around. Otherwise Baileys.
Kudos for having the cahones to post this for others to see & learn and glad you're safe.

 

[Kenster]

I couldn't NOT post this. Yes, I can taste the humble pie I had to eat but I always learn from you guys. And maybe someone else can learn something from my mistakes. As soon as that tree fell I knew I had to take some pictures and share it on the Hearth board.

Another thing I realized today is that, without a proper hinge with the back cut an inch or so above the face cut, there was nothing to keep the butt of the tree from sliding forward off the stump as the tree fell backward. Because I was, indeed, now cutting from the front, my cleared escape path was useless. As soon as I saw the tree just starting to fall backward, I ran forward-- in front of the stump due to poor clearance on the side where I was now cutting. That sucker could have slid off the stump and whacked me good. Another lesson learned.

 

[smokinj]

I couldn't NOT post this. Yes, I can taste the humble pie I had to eat but I always learn from you guys. And maybe someone else can learn something from my mistakes. As soon as that tree fell I knew I had to take some pictures and share it on the Hearth board.

Another thing I realized today is that, without a proper hinge with the back cut an inch or so above the face cut, there was nothing to keep the butt of the tree from sliding forward off the stump as the tree fell backward. Because I was, indeed, now cutting from the front, my cleared escape path was useless. As soon as I saw the tree just starting to fall backward, I ran forward-- in front of the stump due to poor clearance on the side where I was now cutting. That sucker could have slid off the stump and whacked me good. Another lesson learned.

Hey You make it and learning fast look forward to seeing your next pic's. I still check my own stumps wedge and where it landed. Learn from evey one you fell.

 

[Danno77]

if you look around you'll see a post by me from this fall where I took one down and didn't do a good job of it. Yours has the same mistakes mine had. You didn't get your backcut level enough and your facecut was too far in leaving too tiny of a hinge.

You called just about all of those things by looking at it yourself. those were the two things that sent it the wrong direction. that's about what mine did. kinda in a rolling motion as it fell.

 

[Danno77]

"chain and binder technique "

What is this? I also plan on picking up that book.

My understanding of this technique is that you use chains to tightly wrap around and bind a tree trunk that has a vertical split running through it. This keeps the tree from splitting and falling apart on you once you begin to cut it. Quite a dangerous situation.

keeps it from barber chairing. If you need this to fell a tree chances are your out of you Leigh. Walk away why you still can.

might also be useful for situations like when i took a 10ft stump out a year or so ago. The tree was rotted. I made a face cut, and started on the back cut. Cut in about a foot and plop, the whole rear of the tree piched down onto my saw and then just fell off backwards. tree was still standing, so I cut in some more, same thing happened again. Got pissed at the last foot of the tree and just kicked it over, because at that point there wasn't much holding it up.

 

[smokinj]

"chain and binder technique "

What is this? I also plan on picking up that book.

My understanding of this technique is that you use chains to tightly wrap around and bind a tree trunk that has a vertical split running through it. This keeps the tree from splitting and falling apart on you once you begin to cut it. Quite a dangerous situation.

keeps it from barber chairing. If you need this to fell a tree chances are your out of you Leigh. Walk away why you still can.

might also be useful for situations like when i took a 10ft stump out a year or so ago. The tree was rotted. I made a face cut, and started on the back cut. Cut in about a foot and plop, the whole rear of the tree piched down onto my saw and then just fell off backwards. tree was still standing, so I cut in some more, same thing happened again. Got pissed at the last foot of the tree and just kicked it over, because at that point there wasn't much holding it up.

I had my 460 flying through the air before couple 360's hit the ground and set there idling and me with peanut butter skids....lol

 

[Prosecond]

(broken link removed to http://www.benmeadows.com/search/wedge/31226261/180542/)

Don't use steel wedges for felling. If you hit one with your saw you will toast your chain. Plastic is the way to go. Get several of the longer ones. When you are cutting a tree it is easy to use 3 or 4 just to fell the tree. One behind the hinge and two stacked for extra lift.

 

[Intheswamp]

Thanks for posting this, Kenster....good stuff from you and others.

Ed

 

[Thistle]

http://www.benmeadows.com/search/wedge/31226261/180542/

Don't use steel wedges for felling. If you hit one with your saw you will toast your chain. Plastic is the way to go. Get several of the longer ones. When you are cutting a tree it is easy to use 3 or 4 just to fell the tree. One behind the hinge and two stacked for extra lift.

I've cut my own from air-dried hickory & hophornbeam (Ironwood) for years now.I use different sized splitting wedges as patterns to get different tapers,trace around it with a sharpie or ball point pen,cut it out on bandsaw,putting small bevels on striking end to prevent mushrooming.In a pinch you can use hatchet,drawknife & spokeshave also,if you're not in a big hurry.I like that the wood wedges will absorb a bit of oil,dont slip around & dont get brittle in cold temps or age like plastic ones.

 

[dirttracker]

In addition, watch your hinge carefully on those dead trees. I've had more than a few come back the other way when the hinge broke because the wood was poor or rotted. If you're cutting a dead tree I've found it's best to leave a bit more hinge then you think you will need just o be safe. I've also broken the hinge when driving wedges in trying to coax one over with a bit too much backwards lean. Always make sure you have a good escape route especially with those dead trees and keep your eyes (and ears) on the cut as much a possible. Your tree looks like it still had enough strength for a good hinge, like you say, it just got cut away. In your situation I have stacked 2 steel wedges to bring a tree down. Sometimes those smaller diameter trees are more trouble than the large ones because there in not enough room to drive a wedge all the way in before you hit the hinge.

 

[midwestcoast]

. Sometimes those smaller diameter trees are more trouble than the large ones because there in not enough room to drive a wedge all the way in before you hit the hinge.

I agree. Having a few wedges different sizes can help too as you can drive one in parallel to your bar on each side during the back-cut to prevent pinching, then add 1 or 2 (stacked) in the normal perpendicular manner after removing the saw. Lotta fiddling for a small tree...

 

[midwestcoast]

if you look around you'll see a post by me from this fall where I took one down and didn't do a good job of it. Yours has the same mistakes mine had. You didn't get your backcut level enough and your facecut was too far in leaving too tiny of a hinge.

You called just about all of those things by looking at it yourself. those were the two things that sent it the wrong direction. that's about what mine did. kinda in a rolling motion as it fell.

I remember that thread Danno, and all the nice pics, but as I remember your tree fell generally in the direction intended, just rolled on a crooked hinge & missed your bulls-eye I think a major difference here is that, as he said, he misread the lean and then cut through the hinge from the front. The face cut looks too big on the stump because he enlarged it after getting the saw free with wedges. Looking at the base of the trunk though, I don't see a problem with the initial face cut.

 

[smokinj]

if you look around you'll see a post by me from this fall where I took one down and didn't do a good job of it. Yours has the same mistakes mine had. You didn't get your backcut level enough and your facecut was too far in leaving too tiny of a hinge.

You called just about all of those things by looking at it yourself. those were the two things that sent it the wrong direction. that's about what mine did. kinda in a rolling motion as it fell.

I remember that thread Danno, and all the nice pics, but as I remember your tree fell generally in the direction intended, just rolled on a crooked hinge & missed your bulls-eye I think a major difference here is that, as he said, he misread the lean and then cut through the hinge from the front. The face cut looks too big on the stump because he enlarged it after getting the saw free with wedges. Looking at the base of the trunk though, I don't see a problem with the initial face cut.

Thats all correct but if the back cut was higher like it should have been more than likely would have gotten away with it.

 

[Kenster]

I think my first angle and face cut were about right, though the angle cut was a little shallow, more like 30 degrees instead of 45. I've settled on a couple of main issues.
1. Back cut was too low. Should have been a couple of inches higher than the face cut.
2. Using metal wedges prevented me from continuing the back cut once the saw bar was pinched and released. Therefore...
3. I felt like I had no choice to cut the face wedge larger resulting in cutting through what little hinge was there.

I appreciate everyone's input in the analysis of what went wrong here. It wasn't a major thing but it was not exactly convenient to haul all of that wood out of thick, head high brush, rather than in the clear landing zone right on my trail.

As I said, earlier... I've learned some things from this. Maybe others have, too!

 

[smokinj]

I think my first angle and face cut were about right, though the angle cut was a little shallow, more like 30 degrees instead of 45. I've settled on a couple of main issues.
1. Back cut was too low. Should have been a couple of inches higher than the face cut.
2. Using metal wedges prevented me from continuing the back cut once the saw bar was pinched and released. Therefore...
3. I felt like I had no choice to cut the face wedge larger resulting in cutting through what little hinge was there.

I appreciate everyone's input in the analysis of what went wrong here. It wasn't a major thing but it was not exactly convenient to haul all of that wood out of thick, head high brush, rather than in the clear landing zone right on my trail.

As I said, earlier... I've learned some things from this. Maybe others have, too!

lol everyone learns from this kinda of thread. I use metal wedges just don't drive them so far. If your that close to coming down like said before double stack the wedge even metal and drive it home! (this is more work but still hit your Lz)
Your next one will look a lot better safer and feel much better about it!