To Build A Fire, version 17

[Nofossil]

I've had my Eko for a lot of years by now, and I've never been completely happy with the process of building a fire. I worked out a few approaches that worked pretty well, but even with a lot of practice it wasn't perfect. Several problems:

1. It would smoke like an OWB for a few minutes every time, until it got hot enough to close the damper and switch to downdraft mode.
2. Sometimes, it would fail to gasify and you'd have to repeat the cycle, perhaps many times.
3. During startup with the lower door open, I'll sometimes get intense resonance through the chimney - like a 35' pipe organ. Shakes everything - pretty frightening.
4. When I close the damper to switch to downdraft, it will sometimes 'stutter' - a really strong vibration through the draft fan that will actually force primary smoke backwards through the fan.
5. I'll sometimes get a small explosion when switching to downdraft. Not a big deal, but a little acrid smoke.

With experience I could minimize most of these, but it makes fire starting by civilians a less than comfortable ordeal.

I've finally come up with a technique that produces almost no smoke at all out the chimney, produces 100% successful transition to gasification, and virtually eliminates all of the other problems. Perhaps every other Eko owner has already figured this out, but it's a revelation to me. Here's what I do now:

1. Tear a sheet of newspaper in half. Wad up each piece and wedge into the nozzle a bit, leaving open nozzle area.
2. Place a small handful (6-8 pieces) of small kindling criss-cross on the newspaper. Rake leftover coals (if any) onto kindling.
3. Place a piece of larger firewood along each side to keep the next pieces over the nozzle.
4. Build a few layers of successively larger firewood over the nozzle, ending up with 2-3" pieces.
5. Wad up a full sheet of newspaper and place it in the lower chamber under the nozzle. With bypass damper open and top door closed, light it. Draft should pull the flames up through the nozzle.
6. Wait until newspaper in upper chamber lights. You may have to partially close the lower door to prevent smoke from coming out. This step should take 10-15 seconds. You might need a second try if it doesn't catch the first time, but I've had near perfect success.
7. Turn on the fan and close the lower door, leaving the damper open. Don't wait too long to do this.
8. Wait until the flue temp reaches about 200 by my notoriously inaccurate Rutland magnetic flue thermometer. Watch carefully - this takes two to five minutes, and it will start climbing quickly. Close the damper. Gasification will start immediately.
9. Let it run for 10-15 minutes. Shut down the fan, slowly open the top door, rake the coals and firewood over the nozzle, and fill it up.

Using the fan this way provides enough air so that there's very little smoke, and the extra air gets the fire going very quickly.

 

[mr.fixit]

So I thought I would give version 17 a try this AM, but I got to step 2 and couldn't remember how the rest went!
Just kidding,I have done it very close to this way all along with the exception on the newspaper right in the nozzle and lower chamber.
I put crumpled up newspaper in between the wood and loading door side of the boiler as I fill the wood in.
Then it's not so far to bend over to light,but probably doesn't gasify as quickly.

 

[maple1]

I do similar things.

I don't put paper right in the nozzle, just over it. If there's any decent sized coals I'll get them there first - but I usually have none. I also don't put any in the lower chamber. I do put a wad on top of everything & light that first, to get the draft going. Then I close the wood door & light the bottom, both from the front, and up through the nozzle, with a torch. The natural draft is a bit different to get going - I leave the bottom glass door out until I get the kindling going, and put it back in just before I close my bypass. If my firestarter is all dry & right sized, I usually have the bypass closed & gassifying in less than two minutes from torch light. I used to try to have the firebox all loaded before I lit, but now I only fill about 1/3 or so with firestarter & smaller stuff. Then about a half hour after starting, I'll re-load with the serious stuff.

 

[Nofossil]

I do similar things.

I don't put paper right in the nozzle, just over it. If there's any decent sized coals I'll get them there first - but I usually have none. I also don't put any in the lower chamber. I do put a wad on top of everything & light that first, to get the draft going. Then I close the wood door & light the bottom, both from the front, and up through the nozzle, with a torch. The natural draft is a bit different to get going - I leave the bottom glass door out until I get the kindling going, and put it back in just before I close my bypass. If my firestarter is all dry & right sized, I usually have the bypass closed & gassifying in less than two minutes from torch light. I used to try to have the firebox all loaded before I lit, but now I only fill about 1/3 or so with firestarter & smaller stuff. Then about a half hour after starting, I'll re-load with the serious stuff.

I've found that lighting through the nozzle with a torch is effective but intimidating to others. Lighting a piece of newspaper in the bottom chamber is easier, and I have plenty of natural draft to pull the flames up through the nozzle. The big deal for me is that I get quick and reliable transition to gasification without smoking up the neighborhood. For me, natural draft alone doesn't provide enough air to create a hot fire before the switch to downdraft so I'd get lots of smoke and a marginal coal bed.

 

[stee6043]

Your steps 1-4 have been often discussed and successfully utilized around these parts. Perhaps you mentioned these steps many moons ago? I recall immediately employing the "V" over the nozzle when I first read about it in 2008/2009 and was very happy with the results. Your steps 5 and beyond seem rather unique.

I personally take a very different turn in step 5. In step 4 I put enough wood on top of the smaller splits and newspaper to get an hour burn +/- after hitting "go". After that I just wait for the right temps so I can hit go and walk away.

I have never had luck making the switch to gassifiction before my stack temps hit 400 +/- on my equally reliable external magnetic thermometer. If I were to pull the lever at 200 I'd most certainly put the fire out. Further, I have never used the fan during my ramp-up period. But I really have no reason for this. Perhaps it would expedite the heating of my flue??? Hmmm. As it stands today the entire process is a one beer job for me. I find this to be acceptable in the grand scheme.

Based on another users post earlier this year I've been hunting for coals every time I restart now. Every once in a while I'll find some in the corners an they most certainly do help expedite the starting process. I wish I could find them consistently but more than 50% of the time my firebox is 100% ash by the time I get to it the next day.

 

[Nofossil]

Your steps 1-4 have been often discussed and successfully utilized around these parts. Perhaps you mentioned these steps many moons ago? I recall immediately employing the "V" over the nozzle when I first read about it in 2008/2009 and was very happy with the results. Your steps 5 and beyond seem rather unique.

Yeah - I did a much nicer post a few years back with the 'V'. Using the fan is the big difference in this version. Don't know how applicable it is to other boiler designs. An important factor for me is also how easily others can learn to start fires without frightening side effects.

 

[Fred61]

All the stupid mistakes I've made since turning seventy come to mind every time I light my fire with a torch. I lean it on the U bricks for a couple minutes and let it get the coals in the upper chamber glowing. I wonder each time what would happen if I forgot it, closed the door and shut the bypass.

HERE LIES GOOD OL' FRED
HE WAS A SHORT TIME LIVING
AND HE'LL BE A LONG TIME DEAD

 

[stee6043]

Yeah - I did a much nicer post a few years back with the 'V'. Using the fan is the big difference in this version. Don't know how applicable it is to other boiler designs. An important factor for me is also how easily others can learn to start fires without frightening side effects.

Pardon the personal question here but how tall is your stack? I may try this fan trick this evening. I've got 24' vertical outside my house with 10 or so feet of angled pipe to get out of my basement. I may have more of any uphill battle than most in terms of establishing proper draft. I'll try almost anything once, however.

 

[stee6043]

All the stupid mistakes I've made since turning seventy come to mind every time I light my fire with a torch. I lean it on the U bricks for a couple minutes and let it get the coals in the upper chamber glowing. I wonder each time what would happen if I forgot it, closed the door and shut the bypass.

HERE LIES GOOD OL' FRED
HE WAS A SHORT TIME LIVING
AND HE'LL BE A LONG TIME DEAD

I wonder if the lower door latch would hold up to a propane tank going "pop". The shrapnel would surely do some damage to the ceramics. I suspect the end result would be less than favorable but exciting to describe should everyone survive.

 

[maple1]

I don't think the magnetic guage on my stack reads 400 in the middle of a full burn. Actually, I don't think it ever hits 300 - more like 250.

I hit the bypass pretty quick. Once in a while the gassing doesn't catch. In those case, I just crack the loading door open & that does the trick. Woof & away to the races. I leave it like that for 10 minutes or so then close the door back up.

 

[jebatty]

Nofo, your fire starting procedure is just about the same recommended in the Froling manual, although I let the flue temp get into the 300'sF before letting it roar.

 

[kopeck]

Different monster but I seem to have found the magic combination with my Tarm after 3 years.

I stick two "normal sized" splits on either side of the slot, then a small spit on top of the two larger chunks covering the slot.

I then throw two or three small chunks of softwood kindling, over the small split. This isn't completely necessary, some times I skip this step but it does seem to help and I have plenty of scrap lumber.

News paper over everything, light it off and close the door (after starting the fan).

Walk away for about a minute and come back to a roaring fire. Load 'er up and be done with it. It gets to gassing pretty quickly.

Not being shy with the newspaper and making a fairly tight ball(s) seems to be key. I've set it off with a torch too, it works but I tend to get a smokey smell afterwards. Using the method with the news paper means zero smoke/smell! I just pickup a bunch of newspaper when I'm at the Transfer Station...doesn't' cost me anything.

K

 

[BoiledOver]

Like many others I do the splits on either side of the nozzle and bulid a half load up from there. Lighting a cold start with a full load will definitely produce smoke.

My ignition may well be unique tho. I have made 12" wicks from jute twine by dipping them in melted paraffin wax and forming a half circle at one end. The first thing into the upper chamber is one dried white pine cone between 4 and 7 inches long laid paralel over the nozzle. This cone has the preformed wick hooked to it and dangling down the nozzle. Between the splits lays the cone with a small amount of kindling above it. With the bypass open, upper door closed, and lower door open, the wick is easily lit from below; using a match, torch or whatever else is handy. After 45 to 90 seconds telling by the sound of air flow, start the boiler control. Again by sound, as the blower gets to about medium, close the lower door and the bypass. The blower then ramps up and away it goes.

Early on, I had troubles with explosions too. What has worked out in that regard is to adjust the ramp up time of the blower, the factory setting is fast. I don't remember where the sweet spot is but it didn't take but a couple of adjustments to find a setting that is comfortable.

 

[henfruit]

Some times I find a few embers left from the previous fire. If I am not that lucky I will use the torch from the bottom up. I couple of pieces of card board a few pieces of pine scrap kindling, fill the fire box to the top. Then hit it with the torch for 30 seconds close all the doors and damper, hit the start button good to go. As long as my smoke gas temp is climbing I know I am done till the next fire.

 

[chuck172]

I need to crack open the outside door just a hair to get a draft going.

 

[maple1]

I tried something last night I hadn't before. I was out for a few hours, when I got back at 11pm there was no fire left of course & my tanks weren't as warm as I wanted (cold snap here). So I wanted to start another quick burn before I went to bed. There was some heat left in the ceramics. I quickly tossed in a handful of kindling over the nozzle, 3-4 balls of newspaper, hit it with the torch, then closed the door. Bypass closed the whole time. I almost instantly had a little gassifying flame going from my half-effort top down fire. I quickly got more small stuff ready to put in, then slowly opened the door & carefully laid it in. Couple more times of that and in less than five minutes total time I had a good gassifying fire going with a half load of wood in, and was headed for bed.

So, I'm going to play around more with the top-down thing. Seems nobody is doing top-down though? Having a fan to help should make it easier?

 

[jebatty]

I always follow the top-down method, both on the Tarm and on our wood stove in the house. Kindling, a couple of newspaper knots, light the fire, and soon after it is going add the splits. Love it.

 

[flyingcow]

I'm the same as jebatty. Basically 6 or 8 small cedar splits criss crossed over the nozzle, a few pieces of newspaper and light. Then i take the wheel barrow and get a load of wood just outside my boiler room door. By the time I'm back with the wood cedar is crackling, throw wood on top and all done. The top down has worked well for my unit.

 

[flyingcow]

I tried something last night I hadn't before. I was out for a few hours, when I got back at 11pm there was no fire left of course & my tanks weren't as warm as I wanted (cold snap here). So I wanted to start another quick burn before I went to bed. There was some heat left in the ceramics. I quickly tossed in a handful of kindling over the nozzle, 3-4 balls of newspaper, hit it with the torch, then closed the door. Bypass closed the whole time. I almost instantly had a little gassifying flame going from my half-effort top down fire. I quickly got more small stuff ready to put in, then slowly opened the door & carefully laid it in. Couple more times of that and in less than five minutes total time I had a good gassifying fire going with a half load of wood in, and was headed for bed.

So, I'm going to play around more with the top-down thing. Seems nobody is doing top-down though? Having a fan to help should make it easier?

Ready for the nor' easter?

 

[Nofossil]

I'm always ready ;-)

I've never had any luck at all with top-down fire starting. I don't know why, but it hasn't worked for me. Maybe I need to watch someone who has the knack.

 

[velvetfoot]

You boiler people have to go through this rigamarole every time you put in a load of wood?

 

[flyingcow]

I'm always ready ;-)

I've never had any luck at all with top-down fire starting. I don't know why, but it hasn't worked for me. Maybe I need to watch someone who has the knack.

But also the Innova I have has a neg draft, if that makes a difference? Fan is located on the back of boiler, the smoke pipe is hooked to it, kinda like a power vent. It had very little to no smoke roll out when I open the door. But i can't open my bottom door and watch the flame, it disrupts the air flow when you do.

 

[flyingcow]

sorry fossil, we highjacked your thread.

 

[jebatty]

You boiler people have to go through this rigamarole every time you put in a load of wood?

Seems to me my loading procedure (kindling, newspaper knots, add splits and walk away) is about the same as yours, and no smoke inside either:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...updraft-from-kindle-fire.119304/#post-1596625

 

[flyingcow]

Whatever your process is for starting a fire-------Add a cold beer or a good cup of coffee and fifteen minutes of "mediation" time, priceless.