Too much air?

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yoteantidote

New Member
Feb 17, 2018
3
Argentine, MI
I have a Quadrafire 2700i insert and recently my wood is burning way too fast. I’m using very well seasoned oak and my 5 hour burns are down to about 1-2 hour burns and my slowly dancing flames and small secondary combustion flames are significantly bigger and hotter.

Both my primary and secondary air intakes are pulled out letting as little air in as possible (per usual), so I’m assuming the culprit is the rope gasket on the door?

I can not see any areas that look damaged or stressed but it is 10 years old....is this the starting point for resolving the problem?
 
Door & window gasket
 
Dollar bill test door gasket.
 
I have a Quadrafire 2700i insert and recently my wood is burning way to fast. I’m using very well seasoned oak and my 5 hour burns are down to about 1-2 hour burns and my slowly dancing flames and small secondary combustion flames are significantly bigger and hotter.

Both my primary and secondary air intakes are pulled out letting as little air in as possible (per usual), so I’m assuming the culprit is the rope gasket on the door?

I can not see any areas that look damaged or stressed but it is 10 years old....is this the starting point for resolving the problem?


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I have been burning for many years. I think my average life span on gaskets has been around 7 years. They slowly lose their effectiveness through compression and wear which is not readily visible or apparent. Slowly performance degrades until you get to the point you realize something is amiss.
 
Put several strips of paper around the door perimeter and close it. If you can pull the paper out easily, the gasket is worn or the latch needs adjustment.
 
Any chance can someone explain how to do this test? I keep hearing about it
Close and latch the gasketed door on a new crisp US dollar bill. Try to pull the bill straight out from the closed door. You should meet a good amount of resistance. When my gaskets are new I cannot budge the bill. You should check at various spots on the door. Don't forget to test ash pan door if you have one. Glass gaskets if leaking usually leave tell tale signs such as streaking. I had a leaky window gasket once and it killed performance. That is the stoves performance, not mine. :) Manly
 
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Some stove door designs are easier to test with the dollar bill than others. When testing the seal might be tighter in some locations, like the hinge side, than others. That could be ok. As long as there is some resistance the gasket is still making contact. Doors with a knife-edge gasket can be a bit more tricky to feel due to the clamping nature of that design.
 
Slow to this post, but I have the same model stove. Always have had issues with the air not shutting down enough for my taste. I think it is a design issue on the mechanical gating of the controls, and that it does not seal fully when asked to. I also think that the "ACC" control is somewhat of a dud. The gaskets have all been checked and are fine. I have learned to live with the quirks of the stove and seem to have it under control, but I would like to perhaps look into something a bit different and maybe not as institutional looking.
 
If the gaskets are sealing well, try burning larger splits and turning down the air much sooner. Don't wait 30 minutes or for a high stove top temp before turning down the air. Turn it down as soon as the wood is burning well and turn it down until the flames start getting lazy. Then wait for 5-10 minutes for the flames to regain strength and secondary combustion begins. Then turn it down again until the flames get lazy. By turning down the air aggressively the wood will outgas slower. This helps reduce the peak spike in temperature and extends the burn time.
 
Well, a failing door gasket would provide an excessive amount of combustion air into the fireplace. That's what a dollar bill test would be designed to demonstrate, I presume.

That is presumably causing more fuel to be consumed, but heat recovery per unit of fuel to go down = efficiency of the stove low.

I'm guessing that a combustion analysis might find that the oxygen level too high and the CO2 level low in the flue gasses. Low carbon monoxide reading reflecting the ease with which the CO is burned in the bright fire and abundant oxygen. Those readings and a low stack temperature would point to excessive combustion air through the stove, but not the cause of the problem. Normally oxygen levels should be low and carbon dioxide levels high indicating that combustion has effectively taken place in the stove, turning oxygen into carbon dioxide. Draft pressure low because the stove is being flooded with combustion air?

Presumably the stack temperature would be low, or perhaps moderate, reflecting the excessive combustion air going up the chimney before the heat produced from the fire can be absorbed by the stove and radiated into the room air. The bright fire and rapid fuel consumption would be symptoms of that excessive combustion air, and shutting off the stove's air supply is another effort to reduce that excessive air flow. through the stove.

Shutting off the regular air flow into the stove should cause what? High levels of carbon monoxide as the flames are strangled for lack of oxygen and heat to complete combustion. That's sure! Low oxygen levels. Perhaps low carbon dioxide. Stack temperatures low reflecting poor combustion, headed down to a fire going out. Draft pressure high at the stove pipe above the stove.

The window gasket is certainly a likely culprit, but if it were found to be OK, something else would presumably be causing excessive draft through the stove. In short our experience stove techs have identified

It seems our stove techs have identified the likely cause of the problem and a useful way to test their theory. Combustion analysis would likely point to excessive combustion air as the problem, but not what is specifically causing that problem.

But suppose the window gasket were found to be A-OK? What then? Could something else cause these symptoms? If so, what?

<<If the gaskets are sealing well, try burning larger splits and turning down the air much sooner. Don't wait 30 minutes or for a high stove top temp before turning down the air. Turn it down as soon as the wood is burning well and turn it down until the flames start getting lazy. Then wait for 5-10 minutes for the flames to regain strength and secondary combustion begins. Then turn it down again until the flames get lazy. By turning down the air aggressively the wood will outgas slower. This helps reduce the peak spike in temperature and extends the burn time.>>


I see Bgreen has a possible answer to that question. Still excessive combustion air as the problem, but a different way of operating the stove to make it work better, is how I'd characterize his recommendations.
 
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I was inspired to try the dollar bill test on my own stove.

The gasket is working like a champ at the top on the window. Perhaps adequately on the left side, opposite the door latch ---some resistance noted.

FAIL on the door latch side and along the bottom.

Time for a new gasket!

Any recommendations on where to buy gasket material?
 
BG hit the mark. Not all doors & gaskets are alike. I know for a fact the PE stoves have a semi dense gasket, and resistance is relative. No shooting for super tight on the knife edge. If there is resistance at all, you should be good. I went nuts with this in the beginning, and changed gaskets, larger gaskets, looking for a "tight" fit. I got it, and what happened is the pivot area of the latch the swivels against the door, literally prematurely wore the cast door mating surface down, creating a sloppy door latch. What I have found on the Summit, is minimal resistance is the mark I shoot for. As long as I can't easily wiggle the dollar bill side to side, it is a good seal. The gasket will last much longer also. Personally, I think the regular white Rutland "softer" gaskets wear out much more easier & quicker, but you wan to use the same thing the manufacturer sent it out with. I am not a fan of gasket cement ether, I've had much better results with silicone myself.
 
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From another thread I am now wondering if the ACT valve on this stove is not closing fully. OP will observe and do some testing to determine if this is the cause.
 
I can’t imagine using anything but high temp rtv silicone from the auto parts store. The copper is looking sharp on my gasket.

“Some” resistance to pulling the bill. Not tear the bill.
 
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Many stove companies appear be using the 500º black RTV. This is what Rutland sells. I used the red. So far it is doing well.
 
BG hit the mark. Not all doors & gaskets are alike. I know for a fact the PE stoves have a semi dense gasket, and resistance is relative. No shooting for super tight on the knife edge. If there is resistance at all, you should be good. I went nuts with this in the beginning, and changed gaskets, larger gaskets, looking for a "tight" fit. I got it, and what happened is the pivot area of the latch the swivels against the door, literally prematurely wore the cast door mating surface down, creating a sloppy door latch. What I have found on the Summit, is minimal resistance is the mark I shoot for. As long as I can't easily wiggle the dollar bill side to side, it is a good seal. The gasket will last much longer also. Personally, I think the regular white Rutland "softer" gaskets wear out much more easier & quicker, but you wan to use the same thing the manufacturer sent it out with. I am not a fan of gasket cement ether, I've had much better results with silicone myself.


I wish I read this before I tried to adjust my door handle. I have a heatilator ecochoice insert and the manual says that if you can remove the dollar bill then adjust the handle or replace the gasket. Given the gasket material, I find it hard to believe that the door can be tight enough so that the dollar can't be pulled out.

So removing the locknut stripped the threads on the handle. Luckily there are still a few threads left after removing one spacer washer. Now the door is very tight, probably a little too tight and I can still remove the dollar bill. The stove is running fine.

tom
 
For gasket material, ie, the rope, as well as the rtv, I've gotten them at the local hardware store.
The manual might have some tips as well.
I remember replacing the gasket once in my 2700i. I think the adhesive was red.