Told not to use my insert!

[Theonion]

Have a buckstove 74 insert in a masonry fireplace. Been using it since 2013.
Had a sweep come by today for cleaning and inspection, as I do every year.
So he goes into the basement and shows me that the hearth is built on top of the wooden floor framing. He said that's a fire hazard and wrote on his paperwork that he is recommending the stove not be used until the issue is fixed. I've never had a sweep say this, and the company that installed the insert didn't mention anything.
The model 74 is mobile home approved so I'm not sure if that matters...though this is in a house not a mobile home.
Anyone ever heard of anything like this? House was built in the 40s

 

[begreen]

This is not uncommon. Most likely the form wood was never removed. The Buck 74 requires that the floor protector must be 3/8" minimum thickness noncombustible material or equivalent. Most likely the hearth is several inches thick which qualifies. For peace of mind the form wood underneath can be removed.

The 74 does require that the hearth extend 20" in front of the stove door. That is a more likely issue with most hearths. If so, a 24" hearth board can be put in front of the insert.

 

[Theonion]

Thanks, I'm running it now, the basement ceiling is warm but nowhere near hot enough to combust.
I'm a bit irritated that he wrote on his paperwork "do not use insert; fire hazard" because if I ever do have a fire my insurance probably won't cover it

 

[kennyp2339]

You have a picture?

 

[begreen]

I'm a bit irritated that he wrote on his paperwork "do not use insert; fire hazard" because if I ever do have a fire my insurance probably won't cover it

Remove the form wood and have him return to reinspect and sign off on the correction.

 

[Theonion]

That's directly below where the insert sits.

 

[Theonion]

It's hard to say exactly where the brick chimney begins, I suspect that the bulk of the insert is behind that block wall and the part of the insert that sticks.out, about 10 inches, is on the wood floor. It's a partial basement so behind the block wall is dirt and then a slab. The masonry runs up through the middle of my house as this house had some additions built on over the years

 

[bholler]

Thanks, I'm running it now, the basement ceiling is warm but nowhere near hot enough to combust.
I'm a bit irritated that he wrote on his paperwork "do not use insert; fire hazard" because if I ever do have a fire my insurance probably won't cover it

And if he hadn't written that and you had a fire your insurance company would come after him

 

[begreen]

It's hard to say exactly where the brick chimney begins, I suspect that the bulk of the insert is behind that block wall and the part of the insert that sticks.out, about 10 inches, is on the wood floor. It's a partial basement so behind the block wall is dirt and then a slab. The masonry runs up through the middle of my house as this house had some additions built on over the years

Can you post a picture of the fireplace and hearth where the Buck is installed?

 

[Theonion]

Here it is

 

[bholler]

Here it is

View attachment 286705

Your hearth definitely isn't deep enough

 

[Theonion]

Yea I gitta get that fixed for sure. Next year I'm having the floor ripped out and replaced so I'll have them build out an extension

 

[rottiman]

Thanks, I'm running it now, the basement ceiling is warm but nowhere near hot enough to combust.
I'm a bit irritated that he wrote on his paperwork "do not use insert; fire hazard" because if I ever do have a fire my insurance probably won't cover it

If your insurance company gets wind of it you can bet they won't cover you. In fact they may cancel you. I would be getting it fixed and then getting a "clean" inspection done afterwards. Be pro active BEFORE a situation arises.

 

[kborndale]

What inspection? Not saying it shouldn't be fixed but he had a sweep over not an inspector. How does that have anything to do with his insurance getting wind of it?

 

[rottiman]

What inspection? Not saying it shouldn't be fixed but he had a sweep over not an inspector. How does that have anything to do with his insurance getting wind of it?

In our area the sweeps are certified to do inspections which the insurance companies recognize. Insurance companies try there darndest to not have to pay out claims any way they can. They also look for any way they can to shed any potential claims. Insurance companies are not MANDATED to sell you insurance hence they can pick and choose their customers.

 

[bholler]

What inspection? Not saying it shouldn't be fixed but he had a sweep over not an inspector. How does that have anything to do with his insurance getting wind of it?

A sweep is an inspector and one who actually has liability for things they miss

 

[stoveliker]

But begreens first post suggests the sweep is simply incorrect? (If the brick is thick enough.) 3/8"...

If so, I would not do anything other than find that 3/8" in writing (manual), call back the sweep and show him. Then have him sign off in the current situation (minus the hearth extension in the front... Which, until fixed, results in the same situation wrt insurance etc.)

 

[kennyp2339]

But begreens first post suggests the sweep is simply incorrect? (If the brick is thick enough.) 3/8"...

If so, I would not do anything other than find that 3/8" in writing (manual), call back the sweep and show him. Then have him sign off in the current situation (minus the hearth extension in the front... Which, until fixed, results in the same situation wrt insurance etc.)

No good, the installation manual says compliant masonry fireplace built to spec, but since the actual stove box is resting on the thin part of the cement hearth pad with no 8" solid masonry under its null, the 3/8" hearth was referring to that space infront of the loading door.

 

[stoveliker]

I don't think that is what he said:

"The Buck 74 requires that the floor protector must be 3/8" minimum thickness noncombustible material or equivalent. Most likely the hearth is several inches thick which qualifies. "

 

[stoveliker]

I see now what you mean. It assumes the "floor" in the hole is different from the visible brick in the front.

 

[bholler]

This is what the manual says

The Model 74 may be installed using an all masonry fireplace built in accordance with theUniform Building Code and National Fire Protection Association (NFPA). The first step inthis type of installation is to determine the acceptability of the fireplace and chimney for usewith a woodstove. Both the construction and condition of the fireplace are important consid-erations when installing a woodstove. The chimney should extend at least 3' above the roofand at least 2' above any point of the roof within 10

The fireplace is not built to code there fore the insert shouldn't have been installed without bringing it up to code.

 

[begreen]

But begreens first post suggests the sweep is simply incorrect? (If the brick is thick enough.) 3/8"...

No, it didn't suggest that the sweep was incorrect. I just stated the stove spec. The hearth is still not supposed to have wood under it and I recommended removing the wood and then calling the sweep back to verify. I also noted that the hearth needs to be 20" deep in front of the stove door for this stove and it is not. Sorry if this was unclear.

 

[Theonion]

So how would something like that be fixed? I mean, that's the floor.

 

[begreen]

So how would something like that be fixed? I mean, that's the floor.

Are you saying that what we are looking up at in the basement is the sub-flooring and the same all across the basement ceiling? I hope not. The hearth for a masonry fireplace needs to be made of a brick, concrete, stone, or other (approved, listed) non-combustible material. The hearth slab needs to be at least 4" in thickness, it has to be supported by noncombustible materials or able to carry its own weight. It need to extend at least 16" in front of the fireplace opening or 20" if the fireplace opening is more than 6 sq ft.

 

[Theonion]

Here is another pic. At first glance I thought it was the same but it's a but different. The part on the right is under the hearth and its a bit lower, maybe 3-4 inches. The part on the left is the subfloor.