Top downs bottoms up

[ScottF]

I know this is probably a logical thing and should be self explanatory but can someone explain to me the top down and bottom up methods of starting a fire that are always referenced on the site. I always thought paper or starter goes on the bottom with kindling on top because fire rises. Am I just being dumb. Is this just something nobody wants to ask because they will seem foolish? I guess I will step up and be the one.

 

[webbie]

Well, first of all, it can depend on the stove. Example - a Tarm boiler or downdraft stove....the air comes in at the top of the fire, and in the case of the Tarm, a fan blows it down through. I tried a top-down in my Tarm boilers a couple times and it did work pretty well.

I am, in general, a bottoms up type for the reason you say - that a fire started on the bottom warms up the wood above and dries the moisture out, etc.

But think about it - a cat stove, for instance, where the catalytic ABOVE the fire starts working at a certain temperature. A top started fire might make this happen quicker.

If nothing else, it will give up something more to fiddle with this year and report back!

 

[Sheepdog]

Top down refers to a method of starting a fire that results in a cleaner start, meaning less smoke. I have tried the method myself and I'm not thrilled with the results. Maybe I'm just impatient, but I like a fire that flames up more quickly than the top down method does. As far as how to do it, check out this video link. http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1 . The video is a bit hokey, but it gets the idea across. Try it out, and let us know how it works for you, until then, I'm a newspaper and fatwood on the bottom guy. Although, I just tried out a sample of the Super Cedars offerd by one of the forum sponsors and they work slick! They replace the paper and fatwood, you might want to try them as well.

-Sheepdog

 

[RedRanger]

Actually I watched the video a couple of times and tried the top-down method and am just not prepared to go thru the hassle of tying those newspapers in knots (doesn`t work very well unless you do that). And with 4 cords of tinder dry cedar mill ends, I`m not exactly at a want for kindling it doesn`t take much flame to get that stuff ignited . With nice dry kindling, any old way will work.

Knots!! Who needs em :coolsmirk:

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I have been happy with both top downs and bottoms up (to quote Van Halen "Come um-um-um-um-um baby, (Woo) bottoms up, bum-bum-buh").

With top downs- it seems that embers and coals fall down into the stuff below, and part of the theory I guess is that the small hot stuff gets the draft going and the pipe hotter before you start boiling off water in the bigger stuff.

 

[fossil]

Top-down with a quarter of a Super Cedar. I'll never tie, nor even crumple newspaper again (might even just cancel my subscription), and I'll never go back. Rick

 

[Ithaca]

I've modified the top down approach. I build it up from the bottom like in the video but put small kindling on top of the paper. News paper isnt' my top layer. I find it alway lights up. Sometimes the other way would have the paper go out and leave a smoldering fire underneath.

Also notice that there is a quick cut in the video? You see them build the top down method and light it but then they cut to a burning fire. Makes me wonder if it didn't take the first time. lol

The best thing about the top down (imo), is that you don't have to open the door again to throw in the bigger splits like you do when you build the teepee.

 

[Jukeboxfun]

Good video, but no Academy Awards for the acting though. I would have cast Tommy Lee Jones and Holly Hunter.

 

[n3pro]

Thanks, at least I'm not alone. I've tried top down but the newspaper (maybe because it's recycled paper) just created a whole lotta smoke and never did get the wood burning. I also watched the video several times and wondered if it was like the cooking shows, you put raw food in the top oven and pull it out of the bottom oven all cooked and ready to eat in 30 seconds!

I'm excited to try the Super Cedars! Order some even thought I didn't get chance to try the sample yet but I trust you guys.

 

[Hogwildz]

Top down sucks in my book.
Paper bows> Cmon man.
Get two splits lay em in with a space between em, then some kindling or smaller pc criss crossed across theose first two splits. A fire starter block underneath the kindling and bam fire in no time.
Bows..............sheesh!

 

[cmonSTART]

The paper knots make sense I guess, but I still light my fires bottom up. They seem to produce meaningful heat way quicker for me. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong.

 

[karl]

I like the middle outward method of starting a fire. And hey, if it catches on I want royalties.

I put a good layer of splits in my stove, two rows high. These are four inch splits. That's about halfway up on my Summit. Then a layer of smaller kindling. One to two inch stuff. If I have a nice flat piece of bark, I'll lay it down to keep the fire starter from falling down through the wood.

Then I log cabin kindling to the top of the stove. I Throw some tender in the center. It's usually bark and I break it up pretty good. Then I lay kindling across the top of the log cabin to make a roof. I light my fire starter and slide it through the side of the log cabin on to the tender.

The tender lights. It lights the roof and the log cabin, gets the draft going and makes a nice raging fire, which lights the big stuff underneath.

I know its a pain to do all this work to light a fire, but hey, when you only light one or two a year it's no biggie.

The first fire of the year is always accompanied by a bottle of wine and a cute lady friend.

 

[Tfin]

Top down sucks in my book.
Paper bows> Cmon man.
Get two splits lay em in with a space between em, then some kindling or smaller pc criss crossed across theose first two splits. A fire starter block underneath the kindling and bam fire in no time.
Bows..............sheesh!

LOL! Nuff said.

 

[firefighterjake]

Top/Down, Bottom/Up . . . if the fire lights and the wood is a-burning life is good no matter how you got to that point.

 

[Chettt]

If you have a back draft situation where smoke sometimes comes out of the stove while starting, I have found the top down method much better. I put the fire starting material under some small kindling right on top of the splits toward the rear of the stove. The smoke is hot and has a more direct route up the flue. When smoke starts at the bottom, it has to go around the cold splits and is more likely to exit the stove door opening on low pressure, rainy days. On older non-EPA stoves it didn't matter because of the huge firebox size.

 

[Jags]

I can have a fire going in less time then most of your guys startup explanation. :lol:

I agree with Hogz. Paper bows???

Edit: I did promise to BroB that I would scientifically test and compare the bottom up to the top down method, with as close as possible the same fuel load and times/temps. When the weather allows I will post the results.

(but I still ain't tie'in no stinkin' paper bows)

 

[firefighterjake]

. . .
Paper bows> Cmon man.
. . .

On today's Martha Stewart's Living Show we'll show you how to make some beautiful bow ties out of newspaper which you can then use to ignite that delightful LL Bean Woodstove Lover Gift Basket full of scented pinecones and fatwood . . . and later in the show we'll show you how to make an entire five course meal in your oven using only baked potatos.

 

[fossil]

The money you spend on hand soap is directly proportional to the number of stupid newspaper bows you tie. Rick

 

[EddyKilowatt]

I've tried both and bottom up is faster for me, which is a consideration for the evening-and-morning burning I do. I haven't really compared smoke output... I do make a lot for my first five minutes of bottom-up.

For my bottom-up firelay I squeeze in enough wood -- kindling up through a couple of 3-4" splits -- to get thru the first 20-30 minutes of burning, to avoid having to open the door to add fuel to the startup fire.

Eddy

 

[Dustin]

I tried the top-down method. It works O.K. for me. But it feels like it takes longer to get the stove up to temp that way.


I just stack a buncha cedar in the stove, toss a couple splits on, hit it with the propane torch and she goes!

 

[Tfin]

For my bottom-up firelay I squeeze in enough wood -- kindling up through a couple of 3-4" splits -- to get thru the first 20-30 minutes of burning, to avoid having to open the door to add fuel to the startup fire.

Eddy

Same way here.

 

[VTSR5]

If you have a back draft situation where smoke sometimes comes out of the stove while starting, I have found the top down method much better...When smoke starts at the bottom, it has to go around the cold splits and is more likely to exit the stove door opening on low pressure, rainy days.

Also my experience. I have two chimneys that draw strongly when warm, but sometimes need to be "turned" when cold. Both my stoves have dampers that open right to the bottom of the stove pipe, so a top-down arrangement puts the paper where it can begin warming the flue immediately. I got my son to help me tie the bows by calling them "Thermal Energy Modules."

 

[guest5234]

I just throw a load of wood in .....pour in a pint of gasoline and BOOM works every time for me....no paper or kindling...



got no eyebrows or hair left by-the-way.