Two 20 year-old Jotul Stoves for the price of one brand new F3 CB? Which one to choose?

[ewadesign]

Hello, everyone!

Can you help me figure out the best course of action? I have a decently insulated 1400 ft2 home in lower Michigan. My wife and I have access to free firewood through her job in Natural Areas Preservation- the emerald ash borer left much standing dead ash here in michigan. Anyway, we decided to augment our single pipe radiant heat system with a wood stove. After much research and many opinions we are still trying to distill the facts on these stoves. We feel like a medium sized Jotul like the F3 or the F4 castine non-catalytic stoves would be a good choice. To buy one new will cost $1700 and would qualify for the federal tax credit, being EPA rated and all. Through craigslist, though, i have found two used jotul stoves. The primary one is a nearly pristine older Series 8 non-catalytic without an ashpan. it has a single wheel intake and glass in the front loading door. i can buy it for $600. I can also get another older black bear with out glass in the door and a single draft wheel, too- also in great condition for $500. Is it worth my limited money to buy a brand new stove with the tax credit or spend the same out-of-pocket and get these two older jotuls? is there a large difference in the efficiency? it seems like most newer stoves range around 70% efficiency. will a meticulously maintained 20 year old model with single wheel draft get significantly less efficiency? if so, how much less, roughly? Finally, is there a significant difference in the particulate output between the older and new models? My gut feeling is that i can get these two older stoves and install them both for about the same cost as getting one brand new one for inside the house. Double the improvement?- i get a larger shop woodstove (the black bear) to heat the garage workshop, and a well-sized jotul 8 inside for the family. The fuel is virtually unlimited, so why bother over 10 or 15 percent improvement in efficiency? everyone is happy, more bang for my buck? My wife thinks that we should not take a risk with a used stove, and that a brand new F3 is a safer, better option because it burns much more cleanly than the older craigslist ones. Can I get some help sorting this out? Thank you all very much! Page Caufield

 

[begreen]

Size wise, the F3CB is a small stove at 1 cu ft. The F400 is the modern day version of the Jotul 8. There were several variations on the 8 model, so you want to be sure which model it is. There is even a catalytic model.

What is your ultimate goal? Do you want to heat 24/7 with wood or mostly evenings and weekends? For heating in Mich. I would recommend at least getting a 1.5 cu ft stove like the F400 Castine. Although Jotul makes and made excellent stoves, you will want to be sure the older ones are in great condition or you will need to replace (at least) the interior burn plates.

Just curious, have you considered any alternatives? If the goal is long term 24/7 heat, have you considered and shown the wife the Woodstock Fireview?

 

[ewadesign]

the older ones are in great condition- burn plates on the F8 are nice- maybe they need new gaskets on the door, a little stove black, but are otherwise in great condition, albeit 20 years old... we wonder if the F3 is just on the cusp of being too small for us. i guess what my real question is, how much of a difference is there in emissions and efficiency between the old f8 and a comparable new f4 castine? my wife wants to be sure that an older unit will perform poorly and not last as long. i contend that woodburning technology has not changed that drastically in 20 years, and that a lovingly restored older stove will be just fine, and that we don't really need to have a brand new one. i am a fixer-upper, though, and my perspective on older tools is that they are more solidly built and easier to maintain. still unsure, any more help? thanks so much! page

 

[Jags]

i contend that woodburning technology has not changed that drastically in 20 years, and that a lovingly restored older stove will be just fine, and that we don't really need to have a brand new one.

You are partially correct. A well kept old stove is still a viable heat machine. But you are incorrect on the technology part. The newer EPA cert stoves are far more efficient and far less polluting (in the hands of an average burner) then the old smoke dragons. It is true that the older stoves CAN be burned well, but they will never catch up to the new tech. They are simply designed different.

Taking your above info into consideration, I would be looking at a larger stove than the F3. That is actually on the tiny side. I would also be taking advantage of the tax credit towards a new stove. Your fuel consumption (wood) for the long haul with thank you. So will the birds and the bees and the flowers and the trees - laa,laa,laaa %-P

 

[begreen]

Check the 8's model plate. I believe that they did make a cat model which should be a reasonable clean burner. Even it's not, the 8 was moderately efficient and if burned correctly, should put little smoke up the flue. But it lacks the superior secondary combustion system of the F400, so it will never burn as cleanly.

 

[ChipTam]

Page,
Last year, I purchased a 20 year-old Jotul #3 for my summer home in Canada. I love the stove but only use it in June, September and October. It heats two rooms of my 1100 sq. ft. cottage nicely but I wouldn't like to rely on it in January. As others have already mentioned, it's a fairly small stove. By the way, my winter home here in Ann Arbor is probably not far from you. I found the stove up in Traverse City via an "items wanted ad" placed here at Hearth.com. The stove was enamel-coated and in perfect condition. Friends can't believe it's 20 years old. I paid the owner his asking price of $400. and have been very satisfied with the purchase. That said, if I were you, I would go with a larger stove either new or used.

ChipTam

 

[gizmos]

Page,
I would not be afraid of that older stove. However, thats a stiff price. I was faced with the same problem when I bought my F3 CB. I could have saved only a couple hundred by buying a used one at the time. So I bought new. If I could have saved a lot of money, I would have bought an older one. It just wasn't available at the time and I grew tired of shopping the used market.

I did a ton of research on the Jotul stoves before I bought mine. I even went to a friends house an ran a F3 CB before I bought it. Very nice stove......... if your going to use it as a 24/7 heater I would recommend the larger stove. Skip the F400 and go for the 500 Oslo. Do some research on the F400 Castine. I found that some.... not all, have some draft problems with the Castine (back puffing). Never ran this stove, thats just what people posted on the forum. I did run the Oslo for a weekend. It's a great heater. good luck.

 

[tutu_sue]

If the stove was built before 1992, it's most likely 50% less efficient, uses more fuel for the same amount of heat, cause 70% more pollution in your neighborhood, will cause more creosote and chances of chimney fires, make 70% more harmful particles inside your home and increase your exposure to toxic pollutants that cause health problems. www.epa.gov/burnwise

 

[burntime]

If the stove was built before 1992, it's most likely 50% less efficient, uses more fuel for the same amount of heat, cause 70% more pollution in your neighborhood, will cause more creosote and chances of chimney fires, make 70% more harmful particles inside your home and increase your exposure to toxic pollutants that cause health problems. www.epa.gov/burnwise

Be carefull, it will probably not lift the lid, drink your beer, and knock up your daughter :lol: If you can get a newer style it IS worth it in wood savings...that being said if you run SOME of the older ones right they are a viable heat source. I heated my home on 6 cords in WI in cold weather for 6 years. It took 6 cords for 3 months, but it did the job. Now I heat with a new one over 5 months and burn 4-5 cords tops...