Uncontrollable flame

[scaryflame]

Hi there!

New to the forum.

Had a Henley Arklow 5kw insert installed recently - it's low end so not near as fancy as the stuff most of you all have but I have a question!
The flames are uncontrollable - I've attached a video where all vents are closed off completely.

It only has two small splits in it...

Is this normal?

Attached a video of fire burning right now (too large for this site):

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[EatenByLimestone]

I can’t see a video. How tall is your chimney?

 

[scaryflame]

I can’t see a video. How tall is your chimney?

I think if you click the pop out link it will work for you - if not try the below link (just remove the '.' at the start)

.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gEIxFoBbYDjeiZCErzToN-E3T3sUSKaG/view

Chimney is about 7m I think.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I still can't see it.

7m isn't too tall for most stoves, you shouldn't have any problems there. Try turning your primary and secondary air down faster.

 

[begreen]

I get access denied to the video. Down size it to 640 x 480 or similar low resolution to reduce the file size and post it directly.

 

[scaryflame]

Got the access working now - should work in the pop out.
So I initiallity built it with the top down method, this is when I reloaded with two small splits. They burned out in approx 30 mins.

I also have a lot of creosote on the window, problem is if I want it hotter to reduce the creosote I need either more logs or more air which will just make it go crazy seeing as I cannot control it as is.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

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I'm sure you've seen this.

Since your burning a multifuel stove its going to act a bit different than ours. Coal wants the air from under the fuel, hence the grate, while wood fires are built directly on the floor of the stove. Letting your ash pan fill with ash or putting something like sand up to the grate bottom might allow it to burn wood better.

Our secondaries don't close completely. I'm not sure if yours do. Sometimes they have been known to get a little out of control if they aren't turned down soon enough.

Learning a new stove can take some time. Make sure your wood has less than 20% moisture content to remove the frustration of trying to burn wet wood cleanly.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

I’m not familiar with your exact stove, but it looks like you have good secondary combustion going and primary combustion looked under control. To me, that would indicate you’re ok.
The glass getting dirty could be due to wet wood or an air leak around the stove door or window. Is the dark glass occurring in just one specific area?

 

[stoveliker]

I see the primary flame fairly slow and the secondaries very active. I'd hope you can turn down a bit more, but it doesn't look bad.

Indeed, turning down earlier may help to decrease the off gassing rate and thus the intensity of the fire.

 

[begreen]

That doesn't look too bad to me but it should be controllable. The primary air should be fully closed at this stage of the fire. It might even have needed to be closed sooner in this case. Use just the air wash control to regulate the level of the fire once it is burning well.

 

[scaryflame]

Thanks all - I'll keep plugging away and trying to learn! Awesome forum - very helpful advice!

- Eatenbylimestone: Good point about it being a multifuel stove, I was thinking about adding a firebrick over the grate at the bottom - would that work?

Any issue with adding sand into the ashtray as you mentioned? I'd have thought that could be an issue.. turning to glass and whatnot :D

- CTWoodtick: thanks, how can you tell the primary vs secondary combustion? The glass seems to dirty all over tbh, the top left of the glass gets dirty quickest but the whole glass does dirty up. The wood I'm using is less than 20% moisture.

-Stoveliker: That was with both switched completely off.. so when it does out, if I throw in a small log, it burns up quick at that rate and I can't slow it.

-Begreen: Thanks, that was with both vents (primary + the secondary airwash) completly closed. Unsure how else I can regulate it? As above, throwing a small log on just flames up quick..

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Secondary comes in from the top. In your video, it’s the little jets of flame along the top. Keep this a little bit open. That’s the smoke reburning.

You can close off the primary air.

 

[scaryflame]

Cool, so even though it's flaming like that, I'm better off keeping it a bit open?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Do you have a way to read the temp tge stove is running at?

 

[begreen]

Cool, so even though it's flaming like that, I'm better off keeping it a bit open?

Try turning down the primary air sooner and see if you can leave the air wash air about 1/4 open so that the glass stays cleaner.

 

[scaryflame]

Nope although I can always buy a laser reader!

 

[scaryflame]

Try turning down the primary air sooner and see if you can leave the air wash air about 1/4 open so that the glass stays cleaner.

So I have been experimenting and keeping the primary completly off, so starting with the door open for 10 mins or so, then just using the secondary. Same results.

 

[Woody Stover]

I see the primary flame fairly slow and the secondaries very active.

Looks to me like a lot of air is moving through the stove. The fact that the flame on the wood is lazy might indicate that it's wet, as would the dirty window.

The wood I'm using is less than 20% moisture.

Did you test multiple large splits that are at room temp, re-splitting them just before testing, then jamming the pins into the center of the freshly-exposed face?
With that much air moving quickly that through the stove, a lot of that heat will be lost up the flue since the stove doesn't have time to absorb it and transfer it to the room. With those raging secondaries, overfiring your pipe/stove is a concern.
Do you have a means of checking flue temp? Single-wall connector pipe, or double-wall?

 

[stoveliker]

So I have been experimenting and keeping the primary completly off, so starting with the door open for 10 mins or so, then just using the secondary. Same results.

I'd start with the primary open, but close it sooner.
Starting with the primary closed is not ideal because it forces you to keep the door open, which uses way more air, and keeps the firebox cool - instead you want to allow it to heat up. Door closed, primary open, but close the primary down sooner in the burn cycle.

And indeed, test your wood as Woody advises above.

 

[scaryflame]

Looks to me like a lot of air is moving through the stove. The fact that the flame on the wood is lazy might indicate that it's wet, as would the dirty window.

Did you test multiple large splits that are at room temp, re-splitting them just before testing, then jamming the pins into the center of the freshly-exposed face?
With that much air moving quickly that through the stove, a lot of that heat will be lost up the flue since the stove doesn't have time to absorb it and transfer it to the room. With those raging secondaries, overfiring your pipe/stove is a concern.
Do you have a means of checking flue temp? Single-wall connector pipe, or double-wall?

So I just took a probe to the wood, all between 9 and 12. They are kilndried.
I've not resplit as I don't have an axe - I can saw one to check in the morning if needs be.

I've no way to check the flue temp, it's an insert, this kind of setup: https://www.fireplacesireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Arklow-5.jpg
Just looking at this to try understand what you're saying (my fault, newbie here!): https://www.stoveworlduk.co.uk/what-is-secondary-burn-on-a-wood-burning-stove

Do you think there's too much air getting in from the back? If so, would that be a manufacturer or fitting fault?

Here's the manual if that makes any odds to you, http://henleystoves.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/MANUAL_ARKLOW_5_2018_FINAL.pdf - Air Controls on page 16.

 

[scaryflame]

I'd start with the primary open, but close it sooner.
Starting with the primary closed is not ideal because it forces you to keep the door open, which uses way more air, and keeps the firebox cool - instead you want to allow it to heat up. Door closed, primary open, but close the primary down sooner in the burn cycle.

And indeed, test your wood as Woody advises above.

Thanks I can try that. I only had problems getting it going at the start of my woodburning adventure, issue now is it's burning too much!

 

[stoveliker]

The outside is the driest part, as it dries from the outside in. While at 10 pct, the inside may be okay, it is not guaranteed.

Cutting one (ripping it) along the grain is fine. Then measure on that new surface with the pins parallel to the grain.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Burning wood has a big learning curve!


I’ll add that some kiln dried wood is heated enough to kill invasive insects, but not long enough to completely dry it.

Experience comes in time!

 

[Woody Stover]

Do you think there's too much air getting in from the back? If so, would that be a manufacturer or fitting fault?

I don't think it's likely to be a mfg. or fitting defect but with the amount of draft a 23' chimney creates, if the stove is an easy breather by design so that it will work on short chimneys, then in your case that may be too much air.
My wife's sister's stove, was burning borderline hot on only 16' of chimney (that brand of stove is known pull a lot of air.)
Hers is a free-standing stove with exposed connector pipe, so it was easy put in a flue damper. Not sure how you could do that on an insert, though..

I only had problems getting it going at the start of my woodburning adventure, issue now is it's burning too much!

If you throw a split in on a hot coal bed, and two sides are already flaming within a minute or so, that can be a sign that the wood is pretty dry. Conversely, if you put a couple splits on a coal bed and let them get burning for ten or fifteen minute, and water starts hissing out of the ends of the splits, they need further drying.

 

[stoveliker]

To (possibly superfluous) clarify, stoves don't push air, chimneys suck air and since the stove is at the bottom of the chimney, the air gets sucked thru the stove. The taller the chimney the more air gets sucked up and thru the stove. A too tall chimney may thus make a stove run hot.