Unhappy after chimney lining

CJK440

Member
Oct 4, 2008
25
Southern Connecticut
I have a raised ranch with an Avalon 996 wood insert in the basement. I've used it for years setup with a stainless cleanout connected to a short section of 8x6" oval that terminated in the smoke chamber about 6" over the flue blanking plate. The rest was 11x11 terracotta chimney. I had some poor drafts getting it going on warmer days but the stove burnt hot. Like hot enough where you couldn't stand too close and would keep the home cozy with the thermostats at 60. If I shut the basement door the heat would be intolerable quickly.

Last fall I decided I wanted to line the chimney. I installed an insulated 6" liner (25'). It drafts great, no smoke in the house at all, but the stove doesn't seem to be throwing off the heat I remember it used to. I have a new provider of wood and had 2 cords delivered with a variety of hardwoods. I just split 3 different species and find moisture content ~20% with my General pin meter. I also mix in a little 3 year old seasoned hemlock and pallet wood.

I'm wondering if the new liner in an older stove is allowing issues with it to be more apparent. Perhaps the better draft of a 6" insulated liner is magnifying a tired door/glass seal pulling too much heat up out of the house??

What should I look for??
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
18,615
central pa
What size is the outlet on the stove?
 

rdust

Minister of Fire
Feb 9, 2009
4,526
Michigan
Are stove temps and burn times comparable to before the flue was lined?
 

Attaboy

Member
Jan 2, 2017
173
The great white north
Your stove venting outlet is 6'', the chimney liner is 6'', there is no problem there.

You installed the liner yourself, I am presuming there is no obstruction / restriction of any kind and you double checked this as well as cleaning your stove interior and the that the fan(s) operate(s) fully at 100% also.

Have you changed the door and or window gasket to ensure its sealing integrity ?

You mention you have a new fire wood supplier, which is most likely the offender here ( higher moisture content in the wood ), different wood species and drying times can make a huge difference in how hot the stove burns and remits it's heat.
.
 
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VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,012
Central Virginia
Did you block off the chimney after the liner install? The way our liner is installed we were required to block off the smoke chamber/damper area otherwise the hot air with convect up through the top plate and out of the house.
My neighbor checked the moisture of our uncovered woodpile and the moisture fell around 17% to 21% with the samples that he measured. we took his samples and put them on a very hot coal bed and they just sat there and charred. We waited about 10 minutes and finally removed them because they were much wetter than his meter had indicated.
 
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rdust

Minister of Fire
Feb 9, 2009
4,526
Michigan
My neighbor checked the moisture of our uncovered woodpile and the moisture fell around 17% to 21% with the samples that he measured. we took his samples and put them on a very hot coal bed and they just sat there and charred. We waited about 10 minutes and finally removed them because they were much wetter than his meter had indicated.
Fresh split surface and 70* wood? Cold wood not freshly split will provide unusable readings.
 
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VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,012
Central Virginia
Fresh split surface and 70* wood? Cold wood not freshly split will provide unusable readings.
I guess it's important to have the wood as warm as you can possibly get it. How much difference does it make if the wood is below freezing when you put it in the stove?
 

VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,012
Central Virginia
Most all of our wood piles are covered but we burn the wood at outdoor temperature and most times it goes up like a match. However in order for it to burn the wood has to make it to a certain temperature so I guess Im really behind the eight ball when we put cold wood inside the stove.
 

blades

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2008
3,297
WI, Leroy
Yes, you are, not only does the fresh supply have to be heated but the fire box gets cooled way down doing so. Moisture meter readings have to be taken from a split that is at room temperature all the way through. So your biggest problem is very likely wet fuel. High moisture content in your fuel will cool down the fire box and give you exactly what you have described. Another thing to keep an eye on on is if you have a screen at the flue exit. that will get plugged up quick considering your other difficulties adding to your woes.
 

VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,012
Central Virginia
We haven't had any problem burning lour covered splits. The woodpiles that are uncovered are much larger splits and we assumed they weren't dry but our neighbor said that we don't need to cover the wood and they felt dry so he wanted to test them, and we tried it. Thanks we might consider bringing the wood inside.
 

CJK440

Member
Oct 4, 2008
25
Southern Connecticut
Your stove venting outlet is 6'', the chimney liner is 6'', there is no problem there.

You installed the liner yourself, I am presuming there is no obstruction / restriction of any kind and you double checked this as well as cleaning your stove interior and the that the fan(s) operate(s) fully at 100% also.

Have you changed the door and or window gasket to ensure its sealing integrity ?

You mention you have a new fire wood supplier, which is most likely the offender here, different wood species and drying times can make a huge difference in how hot the stove burns and remits it's heat.
.
No obstruction, stove interior was good at the start of the season. No fans, just convection.

I suspect the door and glass seals are in need of replacement. Could this be a factor?

For some reason I can't find a repeat wood supplier, I get a new company every year.

Did you block off the chimney after the liner install?
I fashioned a blockoff plate to seal the chimney from the firebox. Just a small gap around the liner that i need to eventually silicone for a perfect seal.
 

Hogwildz

Minister of Fire
We haven't had any problem burning lour covered splits. The woodpiles that are uncovered are much larger splits and we assumed they weren't dry but our neighbor said that we don't need to cover the wood and they felt dry so he wanted to test them, and we tried it. Thanks we might consider bringing the wood inside.
You don't need to bring the wood inside, to keep it warm, but yes it will dry somewhat faster. The wood temp is not that much a factor. Keeping the top covered does help during the burning season. Off season uncovered is fine. Been storing wood on my back patio with deck overhead covered with a good tarp for 11 seasons. Comes from the pile on the porch inside to the stove, and never had "cold" wood being an issue. Stored it inside one year due to Hernia operation, and while is was more convenient, made no huge difference with "warm" wood. If you want to store some inside, go for it, but don't feel it is a must for the reasons you think, unless specifically to dry it more.

As far as a new insulated liner performing less....I don't see that being the problem. If it is operating similar, and similar burn times, then that leads me to believe it is the fuel supply. If anything, with the liner & insulation it should draft better, and if anything, cause hotter fires, and shorter burn times. My money is on less than optimal wood supply.
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
10,627
Southern IN
I guess it's important to have the wood as warm as you can possibly get it.
Pretty sure he's talking about for testing. Wood has to be at least 50*, then re-split and tested. If it's too cold, wood will test low by several percentage points.
 

jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
4,224
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
I suspect the door and glass seals are in need of replacement. Could this be a factor?

I fashioned a blockoff plate to seal the chimney from the firebox. Just a small gap around the liner that i need to eventually silicone for a perfect seal.
No, bad door/glass gaskets would give you uncontrollable heat, not low heat.

Use furnace cement around the liner. Most silicones poop out around 300F, and RTV silicones tend to be 600ish.
 

Hogwildz

Minister of Fire
No, bad door/glass gaskets would give you uncontrollable heat, not low heat.

Use furnace cement around the liner. Most silicones poop out around 300F, and RTV silicones tend to be 600ish.
The furnace cement will harden, crack and fall out. Been there done that. A pc of door rope gasket works nicely, and stays in place indefinitely. x2 on silicone around the liner, that ain't lasting long and stinks as it singes.
 

Attaboy

Member
Jan 2, 2017
173
The great white north
I suspect the door and glass seals are in need of replacement. Could this be a factor?
Yes and no, if only a little additional air leaks in to the stove it will simply pull more precious heat with it while exiting up the chimney, if much air is leaking in to it then it will cause an over fire situation, which is to be avoided as it can be dangerous.

It is always a better idea to change your door gasket more often than not, especially if it has become hard to the touch, use the dollar bill method to verify if the door is sealing correctly to the stove surface.
 

VirginiaIron

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2013
1,012
Central Virginia
Pretty sure he's talking about for testing. Wood has to be at least 50*, then re-split and tested. If it's too cold, wood will test low by several percentage points.
I read this and I didn't realize it until this morning but the gentleman did not split the wood when he tested just tested the ends and the outer surface. Osso...