Unions

[EatenByLimestone]

Capitalism says, if the boss is an a-hole, find a different employer.

My last employer you'd to say if I didnt like how he ran his company I could start my own. I know of 4 or 5 companies he's spawned. I'm not sure if he still says that, lol.

I'd like to point out that all unions are not enlightened either. They've committed just as many thuggish acts as employers.

Is it any surprise that Jimmy Hoffa, jr leads the Teamsters?

 

[bholler]

Why so high? I did 30 year fixed at 6.625% in 1998 and 5.000% for 15 year fixed in 2005. I may be misremembering, but I thought rates were running 6.00 - 6.25% all thru 1999.

I think my present rate is 1.875% on 15 year fixed.


Exactly. Lazy folks can sit around and malign the wealthy, but this is what it often takes. I averaged roughly 65 hours per week thru my 20’s, and above 50 hours per week in my 30’s. Anyone lobbying for a 40 hour work week at that age is not aiming very high, in their ambition.

I am not willing to work over 45 or so hours I have a family and I want to be there for them. That doesn't make me lazy. I work my ass off those hours so I can be home to get my kids off the bus every day

 

[bholler]

Capitalism says, if the boss is an a-hole, find a different employer.

My last employer you'd to say if I didnt like how he ran his company I could start my own. I know of 4 or 5 companies he's spawned. I'm not sure if he still says that, lol.

I'd like to point out that all unions are not enlightened either. They've committed just as many thuggish acts as employers.

Is it any surprise that Jimmy Hoffa, jr leads the Teamsters?

Saying just go find another job is all well and good but there are plenty of areas where there aren't many jobs. Or the jobs that are available are pretty much all in one industry. So if that industry pays crap it doesn't matter if you change jobs.

 

[begreen]

I'd like to point out that all unions are not enlightened either. They've committed just as many thuggish acts as employers.

Yes, that's true. Like Smith said, we are greedy selfish creatures.

Saying just go find another job is all well and good but there are plenty of areas where there aren't many jobs. Or the jobs that are available are pretty much all in one industry. So if that industry pays crap it doesn't matter if you change jobs.

That was my attitude and the attitude of my team too. We were super productive and got 50 hrs/ week work done in 40 by working smarter as a tight team. We worked hard, but made it clear that we had a life beyond work. Their support helped me out a lot and in return I became very good at what I did.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Most of us are somewhat in favor if unions, but(some) put their employer out of business. Or in the case of public employee unions pile their demands on the general taxpaying population regardless of their ability to pay . They do have a dark side.

 

[bholler]

Most of us are somewhat in favor if unions, but(some) put their employer out of business. Or in the case of public employee unions pile their demands on the general taxpaying population regardless of their ability to pay . They do have a dark side.

Yes of course they have their problems. But to say that collective bargaining is extortion is unfair. It is the only way employees have any real influence

 

[Ashful]

I am not willing to work over 45 or so hours I have a family and I want to be there for them. That doesn't make me lazy. I work my ass off those hours so I can be home to get my kids off the bus every day

I was talking about your younger and singler hungry years, bholler. Work your ass off when you’re young, so you don’t need to do it when you’re old.

I had one job in my early 20’s where we’d often work until 11pm, and be back in the shop at 8am. In my late 20’s I scored a non-exempt salaried position, and literally doubled my salary with overtime every month (67 hours per week with 1.5x time after 40), for about two years before HR figured out what I was taking home and realized they could hire another employee for 40 hours on what they were paying for my last 27.

BTW... aren’t you one of those evil “entrepreneurs”?

 

[bholler]

I was talking about your younger and singler hungry years, bholler. Work your ass off when you’re young, so you don’t need to do it when you’re old.

I had one job in my early 20’s where we’d often work until 11pm, and be back in the shop at 8am. In my late 20’s I scored a non-exempt salaried position, and literally doubled my salary with overtime every month (67 hours per week with 1.5x time after 40), for about two years before HR figured out what I was taking home and realized they could hire another employee for 40 hours on what they were paying for my last 27.

BTW... aren’t you one of those evil “entrepreneurs”?

Well no not exactly an entrepreneur in this business but I was in my last one I sold. And I sold the cabinet business because it kept me out of the house to many hours. That and my father needed help.

But even then before kids I wouldn't be in the shop more than 60 hours. And wouldn't let my guys do it either. Those weeks were rare also because production and safety go down so much when you get over 50 hours.

You also forget many companies don't allow much over time. Even though it is actually cheaper than adding another employee the productivity drops off to fast.

 

[SpaceBus]

Why so high? I did 30 year fixed at 6.625% in 1998 and 5.000% for 15 year fixed in 2005. I may be misremembering, but I thought rates were running 6.00 - 6.25% all thru 1999.

I think my present rate is 1.875% on 15 year fixed.


Exactly. Lazy folks can sit around and malign the wealthy, but this is what it often takes. I averaged roughly 65 hours per week thru my 20’s, and above 50 hours per week in my 30’s. Anyone lobbying for a 40 hour work week at that age is not aiming very high, in their ambition.

Why should you be so proud to work yourself to death, sacrifice precious time with your family, and generally destroy your body just to live?

If I wanted to work myself to death I'd rather go back to the Neolithic age or before. What's the point of all this technology and "societal advancement" if we are just going to make people work to death in order to live?

Also, most people don't work 40 hours despite that being the qualification for full time. Working over 40 hrs a week should be as noxious as the idea of unions to some of you.

 

[SpaceBus]

Capitalism says, if the boss is an a-hole, find a different employer.

My last employer you'd to say if I didnt like how he ran his company I could start my own. I know of 4 or 5 companies he's spawned. I'm not sure if he still says that, lol.

I'd like to point out that all unions are not enlightened either. They've committed just as many thuggish acts as employers.

Is it any surprise that Jimmy Hoffa, jr leads the Teamsters?

Very few employers shirk the opportunity to take advantage of employees. It is more profitable to pay your employees less money, and there are few protections in place. Sure, unions might have done a few bad things, but by and large the decisions made by most employers only benefit the folks at the top that get all the profits.

We have a holiday to commemorate and remember labor reform that created the weekend and a 40 hr work week. Hopefully we have another labor reform to bring things back on track.

I've read for many years the "get a better job" advice, but there generally aren't any better jobs. The "good" jobs have been snatched up and turnover is low when employee satisfaction is high. When faced with the choice of going hungry or working for an poophead, what will you pick?

 

[bholler]

Very few employers shirk the opportunity to take advantage of employees. It is more profitable to pay your employees less money, and there are few protections in place. Sure, unions might have done a few bad things, but by and large the decisions made by most employers only benefit the folks at the top that get all the profits.

We have a holiday to commemorate and remember labor reform that created the weekend and a 40 hr work week. Hopefully we have another labor reform to bring things back on track.


I've read for many years the "get a better job" advice, but there generally aren't any better jobs. The "good" jobs have been snatched up and turnover is low when employee satisfaction is high. When faced with the choice of going hungry or working for an poophead, what will you pick?

I agree with what you are saying but I think you are exaggerating a little by saying most employers are that way. There are allot who care about their employees.

 

[Ashful]

Very few employers shirk the opportunity to take advantage of employees.

Didn’t you previously state you were medically retired in your 30’s, and that you were in the military prior to that? So, from what decades of private industry work experience are you developing these opinions about employers?

Employers generally want to attract the best talent at a price that allows them to be profitable. They are not evil overlords, they’re just trying to do business. If you put yourself in a position to help them do that business, you will be in good shape. If you do not, well then...

 

[festerw]

Employers generally want to attract the best talent at a price that allows them to be profitable. They are not evil overlords, they’re just trying to do business. If you put yourself in a position to help them do that business, you will be in good shape. If you do not, well then...

For salaried workers sure, but in my experience as an hourly worker the only thing a place with more than 500 workers cares about is getting labor for cheap. They'll go through 30 workers for a position if it means not having to pay $1 more an hour, they'll also cap your hours at 30/week so they won't have to pay more for healthcare.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It's not illegal to be stupid. That turnover is going to cost them much more than that extra dollar.


Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

According to GM the UAW workers are already making $12 an hour over the industry standard in the US. How much higher can they go and still remain profitable. Yes GM had a good year last year ,and with that offset a lot of bad years. And the stockholders and bond holders want to get paid as well. More of the compensation for the general employees should be tied to stock prices to make a direct connection between profits and pay. No lessons learned from the old GM vs UAW.

 

[SpaceBus]

Didn’t you previously state you were medically retired in your 30’s, and that you were in the military prior to that? So, from what decades of private industry work experience are you developing these opinions about employers?

Employers generally want to attract the best talent at a price that allows them to be profitable. They are not evil overlords, they’re just trying to do business. If you put yourself in a position to help them do that business, you will be in good shape. If you do not, well then...

There are many industries where this is not true. I have worked in the civilian sector both before and after the military. Most employers don't need the best and brightest, they just need a person. You are in an extremely skilled sector. Most of the jobs in America are unskilled.

 

[SpaceBus]

For salaried workers sure, but in my experience as an hourly worker the only thing a place with more than 500 workers cares about is getting labor for cheap. They'll go through 30 workers for a position if it means not having to pay $1 more an hour, they'll also cap your hours at 30/week so they won't have to pay more for healthcare.

This is the brutal truth of most jobs in America.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Unless you have been both an employer and an employee you have only seen this from one side of the equation. Being an employer really opens your eyes to the other side of the coin. Make payroll, pay endless bills ,suffer losses, work long hours for nothing ,then come back and make judgements.

 

[SpaceBus]

I didn't say every employer is exploiting employees, just most of them. Small businesses account for not very many jobs at large. Maybe in small towns a local business can support several families, but this is not the norm. I think I read the auto industry accounts for only 6.5% of american jobs. The employers that post on the hearth forum are probably less than a hundredth of a percent.

 

[Ashful]

Guys, I think you’re taking offense at perceived implications, and missing my point. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with being a laborer, or a teacher. Do what makes you happy, and choose your own trade-offs. Despite SpaceBus’s claims to the contrary, no one is forcing you to choose any one path over another.

My sole issue is the collusion with your workers, whether called legal or not, to hold an employer hostage for wages higher than your choices would have you expect. Stand on your own two feet, folks.

.. and with that, I’m out. Have fun with your whining about life’s circumstances, I have no interest in that.

 

[SpaceBus]

I'm not taking offense, I'm saying that everyone is underpaid, across the board. Not just laborers, skilled labor is also underpaid. You speak about "expectations", but what does that mean? You say that people should just "help themselves" but there just aren't enough skilled jobs for every single human. Cars still have to be made, burgers flipped, and floors mopped. Unless you want chattel slavery or robots, you will have to pay those people a living wage. If we follow the "don't increase wages/reform labor/etc" train of thought, you end up with folks on government assistance. What happens when you cut those welfare programs? Folks dying on the streets. This literally happened in this country until labor reform and welfare programs were instituted. Perhaps you forgot about those folks born in and before the depression. Should we just go back to children running fiber mills? Let's just eat the poor people and replace them with robots!

 

[Seasoned Oak]

No one im america is dying in the streets due to being overworked ,your way more likely to die from obesity. From an employer point of view everyone is over paid. Of course the employees see it differently. The govt dont set a minimun wage for employers. Hell you can start a hundred business that lose money and the Govt dont care about you ,wheres my right to a minimum wage ,a living wage or whatever you want to call it. I have a family too . What employees have is a guarantee that they will take a fixed minimum amount home every week ,employers have NO SUCH guarantee. Sometimes my living wage is ZERO or less than zero. So theres 2 ways to look at this issue and many other issues.

 

[begreen]

The purchasing power for this wage earner has stayed pretty flat, while medical costs, school, taxes, cars, rent all have steadily increased to keep track with the real inflation and value of the dollar. This has not been the case for the wealthiest.

After adjusting for inflation, however, today’s average hourly wage has just about the same purchasing power it did in 1978, following a long slide in the 1980s and early 1990s and bumpy, inconsistent growth since then. In fact, in real terms average hourly earnings peaked more than 45 years ago: The $4.03-an-hour rate recorded in January 1973 had the same purchasing power that $23.68 would today...

Meanwhile, wage gains have gone largely to the highest earners. Since 2000, usual weekly wages have risen 3% (in real terms) among workers in the lowest tenth of the earnings distribution and 4.3% among the lowest quarter. But among people in the top tenth of the distribution, real wages have risen a cumulative 15.7%, to $2,112 a week – nearly five times the usual weekly earnings of the bottom tenth ($426)...

Sluggish and uneven wage growth has been cited as a key factor behind widening income inequality in the United States.

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Adjusted for inflation, today's average hourly wage has about as much purchasing power as it did in 1978. Most wage increases have gone to the highest earners.

www.pewresearch.org

During this same time period here is what happened with corporate profits.

 

[begreen]

Back on the subject of teachers, Forbes had an interesting article this week. One in four teachers puts in a 60 hr week, and it has been this way for the past 25 yrs.

One In Four Teachers Works 60-Plus Hours A Week

The working week has remained broadly stable for teachers over the past quarter century, suggesting that attempts to cut workload have so far failed.

www.forbes.com

 

[pjohnson]

I for one love unions, I work in a heavily unionized industry. The company I work for is non union and treats us very good. Every year they they take the average of the unionized companies and give us a raise and pay us more to keep the union out. Plus a very generous profit sharing that pays us 4 or 5 times what the union guys get for profit sharing. So I say thanks union guys hope ya get a big raise.