Unknown older double sided, double door wood stove manufacturer similar to Fisher type design

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zonevt

New Member
Dec 6, 2020
6
Vermont
I recently purchased a log house in northern Vermont from a Canadian owner. The 1986 log house came with a wood stove that opens with double doors on two sides of a stone chimney and hearth. The local chimney servicing company could not find any identifiers on the stove but thought it was alot like a Fisher stove or a copy of one. The differences I see from the Fisher models are that the air knobs have six fins and not five, the doors are flat at the top not arched, the inside of the doors do not have the X support, the screen has one chrome type handle in center not two at the edges, the doors have stove gaskets, the door handles are less angled, the doors motif is Canadian geese and not trees. The stove is 30" wide by 37 long by 30" high in center and 24" from hearth to both ends at top above doors. The slope of the top starts flat for 6", slopes up for 6" and is flat for 14" with 8" pipe center, then again 6" slope and 6" flat at other side. Its like having two Fisher double door stoves back to back or mirror images.
The stove is in good working shape except that the baffle is warped from probably being over fired in the past. I plan to have this fixed or replaced with a new flat one. Attached are a few photos of the stove. The stove was used less over the years as it was a second home and the owner was not always here during the winter months.

baffle corner and shelf 6.jpeg warped baffle 5.jpeg wood stove double sides view 3.jpeg wood stove from dining side 4.jpeg wood stove from living room side 2.jpg
 
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peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
6,229
Northern NH
Quite a unique stove. My guess is its custom version of standard stove and they just altered the firebox to have add a second set of doors.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,733
South Puget Sound, WA
Agreed, it could be custom. Based on the huge depth of the firebox it looks like they may have welded two stoves back to back. Is there any sign of a weld on the top?
 

rwhite

Minister of Fire
Nov 8, 2011
1,800
North Central Idaho
Agreed, it could be custom. Based on the huge depth of the firebox it looks like they may have welded two stoves back to back. Is there any sign of a weld on the top?
That is my guess as well. Having the stepped top on both sides looks to me like 2 stoves or one custom built one. I dont think just added another set of doors.
 

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
6,229
Northern NH
I think the business model with this type of plate stove is one company made the door castings and then they sold the design and doors to local fab shops who would cut and bend up the plate and weld it up using typical fab shop tools. Any good fab shop could easily modify a design and create a custom fire box configuration and charge accordingly although they risked selling an unworkable stove if they deviated from the standard design.

IMHO its not bad solution if someone really wanted a two side stove. it probably works okay as long as only one door is open at a time but obviously depends on the chimney design. I doubt the OP needs to worry about many duplicates out in the world.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,859
Downeast Maine
Does one side open into a bedroom? It's a neat piece and very unique. Glass doors would definitely increase the appeal, but the castings are nice. Perhaps this stove was designed for that hearth for the cabin. I find it unlikely that this stove just happened to perfectly fit the two sided fireplace.
 

zonevt

New Member
Dec 6, 2020
6
Vermont
The chimney and stove are in a greatroom of a three bedroom two bath log house built in 1987. Living area on one side and dining on the other. I think the previous owner had a local builder build the chimney for this specific stove after 1987. There is a coal shed in the back of the property so at one time there was a coal stove being used here. There is also a second stone hearth and outside masonry chimney in the kitchen area that has an Elmira Stove Works Sweet Heart wood cook stove installed. We have not used it yet as the firebox needs new fire brick, the original liner is cracked and in need of repair.
 

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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,859
Downeast Maine
That's an awesome cookstove! Elmira makes quality products and I was considering getting the updated version of that cookstove, but we decided on a more contemporary stove. Does your Elmira have a "shaker" of some kind? The double sided stove doesn't take coal, but the Elmira looks like it is setup for coal and wood. Probably burns wood pretty quick, but coal is a different animal entirely. The big double sided stove looks like it would easily be able to hold a wood fire overnight if you figure out how do adjust all four draft caps for your burn schedule.

Do you plan on burning wood or coal?
 

zonevt

New Member
Dec 6, 2020
6
Vermont
We wanted to use the cook stove with wood to bake with on special occasions. We have a woodlot to get our own wood each year but coal we would have to purchase.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,859
Downeast Maine
We wanted to use the cook stove with wood to bake with on special occasions. We have a woodlot to get our own wood each year but coal we would have to purchase.
That cookstove will burn wood, probably a bit fast, but not really an issue if you are not relying on the cooker for primary heat. I think once you cook on it you will like it a lot more than you expect. We also have a GE glass top range oven and I only use it when I have to. My cookstove is a modern high efficiency unit that also has a glass top. The cast iron with lids on your stove is also very nice and you can expose your cast iron cookware directly to the flames by removing a lid and placing the pan where the lid was. If you don't want a ton of heat in the house you can light a kindling fire directly under your cookware and just keep it going long enough to finish cooking. Baking will always make the home warmer, but I still find some cool summer evenings or mornings that I can manage a baking fire without overheating the house.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,733
South Puget Sound, WA
What an interesting house you have moved into. Have you burned in the double-door stove yet? If so how does it work? Is there a baffle above the firebrick?
 
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Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
315
Ohio
That stove appears it may have been built on this side of the pond. However, two-sided stoves are not uncommon across the big pond in England and Europe.

Can you take pictures of the grates in the cook stove? I’m betting it does not have rotating triangular grates for coal. Perhaps I am wrong, but those are the ideal grates for anthracite coal use for grinding up clinkers as well as having a fresh side to expose daily to the heat for less warping over time, or even no warping. For wood you want to use a plate on top of those triangular grates which you may have to make yourself if you don’t already have a plate for it. I’m guessing this stove does not have the triangular grates I am talking about, but a different style. Either way it is a nice stove, but just know cleaning of the stoves inner parts will much more tedious using wood.

You would be amazed by the mount of constant temperature heat coming off of that cook stove in oven mode when burning coal. It will idle along for hours and reload and shake down is simple.
 

Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,920
SEPA
I recently purchased a log house in northern Vermont from a Canadian owner. The 1986 log house came with a wood stove that opens with double doors on two sides of a stone chimney and hearth. The local chimney servicing company could not find any identifiers on the stove but thought it was alot like a Fisher stove or a copy of one. The differences I see from the Fisher models are that the air knobs have six fins and not five, the doors are flat at the top not arched, the inside of the doors do not have the X support, the screen has one chrome type handle in center not two at the edges, the doors have stove gaskets, the door handles are less angled, the doors motif is Canadian geese and not trees. The stove is 30" wide by 37 long by 30" high in center and 24" from hearth to both ends at top above doors. The slope of the top starts flat for 6", slopes up for 6" and is flat for 14" with 8" pipe center, then again 6" slope and 6" flat at other side. Its like having two Fisher double door stoves back to back or mirror images.
The stove is in good working shape except that the baffle is warped from probably being over fired in the past. I plan to have this fixed or replaced with a new flat one. Attached are a few photos of the stove. The stove was used less over the years as it was a second home and the owner was not always here during the winter months.

View attachment 268713 View attachment 268714 View attachment 268715 View attachment 268716 View attachment 268717
I love your stove and setup. I was just saying earlier today that someone needs to figure out a good insert solution for a two sided fireplace, and you have a wonderful example.

If someone did this with a couple of glass doors (although I think the geese are spectacular), and added secondary tubes on top directly below the baffle to burn off the gasses from the exhaust, this would a great solution to fix up folks' two sided fireplaces.

I wonder: If I cut the backs out of a couple of Drolet or Englander stoves and welded them together, would it void the two warranties?
 
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zonevt

New Member
Dec 6, 2020
6
Vermont
That stove appears it may have been built on this side of the pond. However, two-sided stoves are not uncommon across the big pond in England and Europe.

Can you take pictures of the grates in the cook stove? I’m betting it does not have rotating triangular grates for coal. Perhaps I am wrong, but those are the ideal grates for anthracite coal use for grinding up clinkers as well as having a fresh side to expose daily to the heat for less warping over time, or even no warping. For wood you want to use a plate on top of those triangular grates which you may have to make yourself if you don’t already have a plate for it. I’m guessing this stove does not have the triangular grates I am talking about, but a different style. Either way it is a nice stove, but just know cleaning of the stoves inner parts will much more tedious using wood.

You would be amazed by the mount of constant temperature heat coming off of that cook stove in oven mode when burning coal. It will idle along for hours and reload and shake down is simple.
The cook stove does appear to have coal grates in the bottom. The past owner had burned wood in this stove just as is on those grates and there is a removable ash bin below.
 

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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,859
Downeast Maine
That's a good way to ruin a coal burning appliance. The damage to the side insulation definitely makes it look like wood was burned in it. If you can replace the refractory insulation and put in a wood burning plate to go over the shakers I think it would be fine for wood. A bottom fed draft like that coal setup requires can quickly cause a wood burning fire to overheat the cast iron shakers and cause other damage. The refractory is fragile and often damaged on smaller fireboxes like that cookstove. I have a cracked piece of refractory in my Morso, but it will probably still be fine for several years. A plate to cover the shaker grates would be ideal and help the fire not burn so hot and quickly. Baking with wood on that setup would be difficult to control. Sometimes my modern cookstove gets a little hotter than I would like if I don't turn down the bottom fed air very quickly.
 
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Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
315
Ohio
Looks like SpaceBus replied before I could. Good post.

It appears they are warped slightly, but it’s hard to tell on this phone screen looking at all the ash. Clean them off and take another picture. You should be able to find replacements. These are what you want for coal burning anthracite nut coal. This is great...gives you the option to burn either fuel...with a plate.

You can cut a steel plate or even cut fire bricks to fit on top for burning of wood. Leave a couple inches of ash on top when burning wood to slow any leaking air from underneath. If you look, you may find there was another removable set of grates or even a factory plate for wood burning. A plate is easy to add or remove. Cardboard template traced can work for a pattern. Make it out 3/8” plate steel or better yet 1/2” and it’ll never warp. Remove when you want to burn coal.

Burning coal without rotating them can also warp them, but burning wood without a thick layer of ash or a wood burn plate will almost certainly warp them. Yours can be replaced if warped. That’s what I would do.

I’d like to have that stove myself to heat with and cook on.

I will defer to SpaceBus. He seems to have good grip on this to help you with...and a bigger screen. LOL
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,859
Downeast Maine
Looks like SpaceBus replied before I could. Good post.

It appears they are warped slightly, but it’s hard to tell on this phone screen looking at all the ash. Clean them off and take another picture. You should be able to find replacements. These are what you want for coal burning anthracite nut coal. This is great...gives you the option to burn either fuel...with a plate.

You can cut a steel plate or even cut fire bricks to fit on top for burning of wood. Leave a couple inches of ash on top when burning wood to slow any leaking air from underneath. If you look, you may find there was another removable set of grates or even a factory plate for wood burning. A plate is easy to add or remove. Cardboard template traced can work for a pattern. Make it out 3/8” plate steel or better yet 1/2” and it’ll never warp. Remove when you want to burn coal.

Burning coal without rotating them can also warp them, but burning wood without a thick layer of ash or a wood burn plate will almost certainly warp them. Yours can be replaced if warped. That’s what I would do.

I’d like to have that stove myself to heat with and cook on.

I will defer to SpaceBus. He seems to have good grip on this to help you with...and a bigger screen. LOL
LOL! I am using a laptop, so it was easier to see the clues. On the ash pan door you can see an oval cover, this lifts up to connect a handle to the shakers. Indeed, it is a very nice stove. The shakers are a very nice touch and since the stove is set up for coal it will have at least a rudimentary secondary air inlet. If we ever build another house I would like to get a larger dual fuel cookstove like a Heco 520. Our "North" can burn coal, but doesn't have any kind of shakers and the secondary air is unregulated, so it is primarily a wood burner. Technically I could make our Morso 2b burn coal, it has a small shaker grate and a way to let fir in under the coal. I would imagine the airwash inlet would need to be 100% closed since the secondary air is not regulated.
 
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Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
315
Ohio
Yep...I’m on a phone.

If I’m not mistaken the Heco 520 (the son worked for and left his dad at D.S. and started Heco) can be ordered with coal grates...D.S. Machine grates.

I prefer the Hitzer grates for breaking up clinkers. The Hitzer grate frame has a bar separating the grates to help with breaking up clinkers as well as adds strength to the grate frame, and most importantly makes it harder to dump a load of coal.

D.S. grates are also heavily built but lack the stronger framework holding them in place. Still, a heavily built system. These burn pea coal much easier as well.

I have been eyeing the Heco and coal grate option for a while now. That big box would hold a lot of coal.
 

zonevt

New Member
Dec 6, 2020
6
Vermont
Thanks for all the informative replies. I have no experinece using coal or wood cook stoves. We have had Avalon and fireplace insert wood stoves in all of our other houses. The local company that services the stoves and chimney's said they could redo the firebox brick and any parts that are needed so it can be used but that will not happen this winter probably next spring. The shakers in the cookstove are warped on the left and center ones. The right side seems to work best. The center one is the worst but turns freely.
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,859
Downeast Maine
Thanks for all the informative replies. I have no experinece using coal or wood cook stoves. We have had Avalon and fireplace insert wood stoves in all of our other houses. The local company that services the stoves and chimney's said they could redo the firebox brick and any parts that are needed so it can be used but that will not happen this winter probably next spring. The shakers in the cookstove are warped on the left and center ones. The right side seems to work best. The center one is the worst but turns freely.
At least the whole stove isn't warped. Your Elmira doesn't look very old, at least not a Victorian era dual fuel cookstove. The old ones do better with wood and handle more abuse, but your Elmira is definitely more efficient with the refractory liner. Good news that you have a local person that can help you source parts! I think you will be really happy with the cookstove once it is fixed and outfitted for burning wood.

Having the option to burn coal is nice because you can have it burn low and slow to keep the flue and stove warm if you have to be away for a long time. Coal is hard on the flue, so 316 stainless is preferred. 304 stainless will work if you primarily burn wood in the shoulder seasons and keep the flue dry when burning coal. When water comes into contact with coal ash it forms sulfuric acid and that will damage the 304 stainless, and the 316 over a long enough time. Usually winter is very dry and if burning coal you can keep the flue warm enough to prevent water from getting in since the stove can pretty much burn 24/7 for an entire season if using just coal. I find coal burning to be very interesting, but the toxic fly ash and flue emissions are a big turn off for me. Maybe I'll buy one bag and try it in my cookstove just to see what it's like, but I don't see myself ever using it long term. Especially since I would really need a whole different stove and chimney setup.
 

Hoytman

Feeling the Heat
Jan 6, 2020
315
Ohio
SpaceBus, your chimney is already coated with at least a thin layer of creosote and fly ash from burning wood. Don’t waste your time with one bag of coal. Go ahead and pick up 5-10 bags of Blashak or Lehigh nut coal ( I like Blashak since they wash it really well...very little fines on larger pieces) and give yourself a couple weeks to see what it’s like. Those 10 bags, depending on your home size and heat demand could last you a few weeks. In my box stove and in the coldest of weather I burn from 20lbs to about 24 lbs and rarely 30 lbs a day. Most of the time it’s about a half a bag or tad more. Ten (10-12) to twelve bags will give you a better feel for a shaking routine (usually twice a day at the same time each day...don’t get lazy on the time) and will give you a better feel for the heat cycling...much different than the wood, far less cycling...ideally none on a good schedule. The heat in the home will remain really constant from day to day. That’s what spoiled me.

To the OP...
Bituminous will burn just like wood, will need stoked by breaking the coal and clinkers up with a poker twice a day and you can get by with only adding a few lumps at a time. The firebox doesn’t have to be full to burn and the lumps of bituminous can have air around them much like only one or two logs in your stove.

Anthracite ... nut coal is what you will want to burn in that cook stove... is completely different than it’s bituminous cousin. It does not like being poked from above. You can kill the fire this way. It likes to have a full fire box and a thick layer of coal is what slows down the air coming through the coal and slows down and allows for control of the fire. It will burn extremely hot without a thick layer. You don’t want that. You want the fire box full up to the bricks when you finish loading and heaping above the bricks in the center of the fire pot won’t hurt.

You start a hot wood fire or use hardwood lump charcoal to build a bed of wood coals. Dampers open full. Air supply open full. Ash door open full. Then start adding anthracite a thin 2”-3” layer at a time. Each layer needs to ignite the volatile gases in that layer and you will see blue flames. Let these burn for 5-15 minutes each layer before adding another when first filling the stove. Always...always make sure you leave and see at least some red coals in at least one spot or corner of the firebox before adding each layer of coal. These exposed red coals help ignite the volatile gases of each layer. Always leave some glowing coals before adding the next layer. If you don’t have or see any, this is where you can take a poker and gently move some coal to expose glowing red underneath...usually a corner where you can easily see it. As long as you see that red glow you can add more, but leave a glowing red slot. As each layer ignites blue you can then cover the red corner. When that corner ignites blue and burns for a while you see the red glow begin to show through each layer, add more when you see red. Load in layers until you’re full.

As you are filling for the first time if the stove starts getting too hot cut back on the air some and close the ash door between each layer. Don’t allow the stove to over fire during start up. Use your thermometers. A stove at 375-4above the fire on top of the stove is plenty hot to start your fire. It’s much hotter than that inside the firebox.

Tending on the 12 hour intervals...everyone has a special way...this is just one.

Open any pipe dampers first. Open your ash door next and then any secondary air supply and let the stove ramp up and get hot. You will see fire come alive

(Here is where you have to make a choice to shake first or add a small amount of coal to help the shake down. Some like to add a small layer of coal for weight, let it catch (blue flames). This small layer will help with the next step, shaking. You don’t have to add a small amount here...you can shake first.)

Once the fire comes to life you shake it down until you see small red/orange coals dropping onto the ash pan the full length of the pan. Short, choppy strokes on each grate making sure to rotate each grate to a fresh side after you shake each grate. You should be able to see a nice orange glow from underneath all along the grates. You may want to give the fire more time to get even hotter now. Check your thermometers until you get a feel for what is right. Now start adding layers. Might take one, might take three...just let the blue flames ignite with each layer and make sure you see glowing red and leave it glowing, don’t cover it up and go ahead and add another layer. When done adding, close the ash pan door, close the load door, set your air and dampers and you’re done. Takes much longer to write it, read it and understand it than it does to actually do it. Each stove is different and might call for variances in these steps. People also do things their own way they like. It’s all good.

First unfamiliar load might take you a half hour. Each year first fire will get faster as you gain experience. Tending times will also get shorter with experience and will take you 5-15 minutes, twice a day, depending on factors. There will be times during warm spells you might only tend once. That is, you might only shake once, but you might fill twice that day in order to maintain a full firebox at all times.