UPDATE: New Stove in Living Room - Going with a BK Ashford!

[Nelson]

Hello All!

After a little hiatus (my last major post was when I was researching inserts for my basement hearth), I'm back with a new challenge and I'm looking for some advice.

I have an exterior chimney that serves two hearths. One in the basement and one in our main living area. As I mentioned, I already have a PE Summit doing its thing in the basement. Now we are getting ready to remodel our main living area which includes wanting to do something with the existing hearth and fireplace. Primarily to provide some secondary heat on the really cold nights.

I believe the unit that is currently in place is some sort of Heat n' Glo prefab (see attached pictures). There is a blower unit in the right front area of the fireplace that has a Heat n' Glo plate but doesn't offer any details on the model.

Quick dimensions of the opening (taken with the pre fab in place - rough dimensions might be slightly larger).
24" D 36" W 30" H

I have several things that I'm looking for suggestions and opinions on.

1. First and foremost. Insert vs Free Standing. So far, wife is much more agreeable to the look of an insert. I would rather have a free standing stove. I've read just about every thread on this forum around this subject so not sure what more info I can gleem. At the end of the day, looks are going to trump function (this will be secondary heater - PE Summit in basement does a good job of heating most of the house in all but the coldest temps). That said, always interested to hear opinions on the matter.

2. We want to remove the brick on the exterior of the hearth. Only one row of brick in the front of the fireplace. Understand that we will need to bump this out. How much will depend on Insert vs Free Standing. Anything else to consider here? Likely go with some sort of tile or stone - definitely won't do brick again. Would like to keep the existing mantle. Any structural concerns to think about??

Finally, I would LOVE to see some pics of what others have done with a similar set up.

Thanks in advance - I'm always amazed at the wealth of information I find on this forum and I'm very appreciative of people taking time out of their days to comment.

 

[Nelson]

I forgot to add, there looks to be a gas valve control in the brick out in front of the stove (right under the reindeer in the pic). I assume they had a gas stove in there at some point. I'm guessing I will need to rip that out but not quite sure how to go about that. My first thought was to call our propane company to have it removed safely but not entirely sure.

 

[HomeinPA]

The fireplace looks like a masonry firebox with a poker style damper. The heat & glo unit appears to be a blower/grate thingy (that's a trade term so you may not be familiar with it) which you would just toss in the garbage.

If it's as it appears I'd go with an insert into the fireplace. You'll have to install a liner and such which will require some cutting of the damper frame and such. A big consideration will be clearances to the mantel. Keep in mind that most clearances refer to areas thicker than 3/4" from the face of the fireplace so some of it may not be a problem. Check the clearances with the stove mfg. for clarification. You may consider removing the mantel all together and go with something else.

Depending on the size of your firebox you could also raise the hearth off the floor by a course or so of brick OR simply install 20" deep preformed hearth stones cemented right on top of the existing brick. You'd get the extra depth you'll likely need and only be 2 inches higher than what it sits now.

 

[Nelson]

Thanks for the reply HomeinPA!

What makes me think its a pre-fab is the firebrick that's inside. It's not the same as the chimney but maybe that's intentional? I guess I need to get in there and start ripping things out to be sure.

It's starting to sound like I'm not going to win the battle of insert vs free standing. My wife is pretty dead set on the look of an insert.

Question - been doing some digging around but having some trouble finding a medium size insert that can load N/S with 16-17" splits. Anyone know of any off the top of their head?

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the reply HomeinPA!

What makes me think its a pre-fab is the firebrick that's inside. It's not the same as the chimney but maybe that's intentional? I guess I need to get in there and start ripping things out to be sure.

It's starting to sound like I'm not going to win the battle of insert vs free standing. My wife is pretty dead set on the look of an insert.

Question - been doing some digging around but having some trouble finding a medium size insert that can load N/S with 16-17" splits. Anyone know of any off the top of their head?

Not sure if it will fit but the PE Super insert and the Enviro Kodiak 1700 have squarish fireboxes that load N/S.

 

[HomeinPA]

Firebrick are used to lay up the firebox. They're not the same size or look of common brick. Yours are laid up on their edge so you see the full face of the brick, about 4.5 x 9 inches. It's a masonry firebox.

You need to be quite clear with mama that the free standing stove is going to come out from the firebox probably a good 18" and then the hearth in front of the stove needs to be another 18" in front of that. Unless that room is huge, that takes a big chunk out of the floor plan. What's her objection to an insert?

Regency CI1250 for consideration - Doesn't stick out on the hearth and has a big viewing area.

 

[TheBaron]

Our fireplace opening was like that in terms of higher and not that wide. We had to extend our hearth for proper ember protection, but also to get an R value to combustible material.

Folks on here helped at the time to name the product, but it looked like drywall and then we tiled over it.

Ended up with a Jotul C450 - which has been great for the past 4 years now. Only issue that you might not like is that it doesn’t burn N-S unless you cut your logs shorter. Pics to come


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[TheBaron]

Found the easy pic can get more I’d needed. I think the product for the hearth was Micor

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[Nelson]

Firebrick are used to lay up the firebox. They're not the same size or look of common brick. Yours are laid up on their edge so you see the full face of the brick, about 4.5 x 9 inches. It's a masonry firebox.

You need to be quite clear with mama that the free standing stove is going to come out from the firebox probably a good 18" and then the hearth in front of the stove needs to be another 18" in front of that. Unless that room is huge, that takes a big chunk out of the floor plan. What's her objection to an insert?

Regency CI1250 for consideration - Doesn't stick out on the hearth and has a big viewing area.
View attachment 221283

Ahh, I see RE: the firebrick.

She wants the insert - doesn't like the idea of the free standing (but I do!). I understand her point as I do tend to like the look of the insert a little more but love the idea of more heat from a free standing stove.

 

[Nelson]

Found the easy pic can get more I’d needed. I think the product for the hearth was Micor

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Thanks Baron - looks great! Is that a stone veneer product? I'm guessing the stuff that was like drywall was concrete board...

 

[Nelson]

Thanks for the suggestions Begreen. I think my wife is favoring more of a flush look so I've been checking out the Neo 2.5 from PE - though I don't think I can load N/S in the Neo. Not the end of the world since it's a secondary stove but certainly would prefer to load N/S if I can.

 

[begreen]

Not sure a flush and deep insert exists.

 

[TheBaron]

For the hearth, it’s a slate tile that they sell at Home Depot. The fireplace itself is large stones.


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[Nelson]

Not sure a flush and deep insert exists.

Agreed. If it does, I have yet to find it in my searches.

 

[HomeinPA]

Ahh, I see RE: the firebrick.

She wants the insert - doesn't like the idea of the free standing (but I do!). I understand her point as I do tend to like the look of the insert a little more but love the idea of more heat from a free standing stove.

Well, there is the option of Regency H2100 but I'm not sure about firebox size for your room.

 

[Nelson]

That would be a great option from a heating standpoint but my wife definitely wants a more flush look.

 

[Nelson]

UPDATE:

After much deliberation with my wife, it looks like we have settled on a Blaze King Ashford insert! At the end of the day, the modern lines of something like the Regency 2600i or the PE Neo didn't match with the overall look of the house so we went with function over form.

I have a few questions about the Ashford. I was going to post them in the Blaze King thread but didn't want to clutter that thread with my questions. Hopefully those knowledgeable with the Ashford will stop in and help out.

1. What is the max log length for loading N/S in the Ashford? Per the manual, it is 16 3/4" brick to brick and 18" brick to glass. Wondering what real world sizes people are able to load N/S. I would prefer to load N/S if I can. Most of my wood is around 17"

2. I would love to hear thoughts on the fan. Compared to other inserts, how quiet is the fan? I have a PE Summit and the fan, on high, is pretty loud. Obviously, it's a fan so it's going to produce noise but this is going to be in our main living area so I am sensitive to the noise the fan will produce.

3. How easy is it to clean the liner from below (inside)? My preference is to clean it from the inside.

Thanks all

 

[begreen]

Do you usually run the blower on full? We never run it higher than 50% and it's pretty reasonable at that level. I'm pretty sensitive to fan noise. It's why I was glad to get the pellet stove out of the living room.

 

[Nelson]

I run the Summit on high a majority of the time but it's in the basement and we don't spend much time down there. This will be a secondary heater so I don't anticipate needing to run it on high.

 

[Tegbert]

UPDATE:

After much deliberation with my wife, it looks like we have settled on a Blaze King Ashford insert! At the end of the day, the modern lines of something like the Regency 2600i or the PE Neo didn't match with the overall look of the house so we went with function over form.

I have a few questions about the Ashford. I was going to post them in the Blaze King thread but didn't want to clutter that thread with my questions. Hopefully those knowledgeable with the Ashford will stop in and help out.

1. What is the max log length for loading N/S in the Ashford? Per the manual, it is 16 3/4" brick to brick and 18" brick to glass. Wondering what real world sizes people are able to load N/S. I would prefer to load N/S if I can. Most of my wood is around 17"

2. I would love to hear thoughts on the fan. Compared to other inserts, how quiet is the fan? I have a PE Summit and the fan, on high, is pretty loud. Obviously, it's a fan so it's going to produce noise but this is going to be in our main living area so I am sensitive to the noise the fan will produce.

3. How easy is it to clean the liner from below (inside)? My preference is to clean it from the inside.

Thanks all

1) at 17” you are going to be sitting on the door opening. It will work but will probably result in blacker glass. I try to stay at 15-16”



2) the fan is quiet on low it is quieter than my security camera dvr running close by. I compare it to a desktop computer. On medium it is louder but not obnoxious even on high but I suspect you won’t need much over medium.

3) haven’t cleaned mine yet but it looks to be pretty easy. I have a soot eater coming so we will see how it goes.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[Nelson]

Thanks for the measurement Tegbert - that's awesome!

I have more leeway with the Summit in terms of length but I can certainly be a little more diligent and keep some pieces at 16".

Sounds like the fan is decently quiet, which is great!

 

[Nelson]

New question on floor protection. I did some searching on this and wasn't successful in finding anything with regard to the Ashford insert.

Here is a quote from the Ashford Insert manual.

"If the bottom of the appliance is 5” (125 mm) or more above the fl oor level (combustible material) only ember protection is required (UL 1618 type 1) extending 16” (407 mm) in USA or 18” (458 mm) in Canada in front of the door and extending 8” to either side of the door opening. If the bottom of the appliance is at floor level (combustible material) or less than 5” (125 mm) above floor level, a layer of non-combustible thermal protection (UL 1618 type 2, where R=1.06 minimum) is required under the appliance extending 16” (407 mm) in the USA and 18” (458 mm) in Canada."

I'm trying to confirm what constitutes a non-combustible material where R=1.06. I am putting the insert into an existing masonry fireplace. Does the floor of the existing masonry fireplace meet the requirement? In addition, we are putting in a cut stone, (2 1/4" thick) for a hearth extension which will go out 25". Does the cut stone meet the requirement?

 

[Highbeam]

That’s a high rvalue requirement. There are tables showing r value per inch of various materials. 2.5” of stone is almost certainly insufficient.

 

[begreen]

New question on floor protection. I did some searching on this and wasn't successful in finding anything with regard to the Ashford insert.

Here is a quote from the Ashford Insert manual.

"If the bottom of the appliance is 5” (125 mm) or more above the fl oor level (combustible material) only ember protection is required (UL 1618 type 1) extending 16” (407 mm) in USA or 18” (458 mm) in Canada in front of the door and extending 8” to either side of the door opening. If the bottom of the appliance is at floor level (combustible material) or less than 5” (125 mm) above floor level, a layer of non-combustible thermal protection (UL 1618 type 2, where R=1.06 minimum) is required under the appliance extending 16” (407 mm) in the USA and 18” (458 mm) in Canada."

I'm trying to confirm what constitutes a non-combustible material where R=1.06. I am putting the insert into an existing masonry fireplace. Does the floor of the existing masonry fireplace meet the requirement? In addition, we are putting in a cut stone, (2 1/4" thick) for a hearth extension which will go out 25". Does the cut stone meet the requirement?

This is take a little more planning. I would think about making a compliant, non-combustible hearth that extends to the back of the fireplace firebox. This can be topped with a stone tile and edging. To build up to R=1.06 you could use 3 layers of 1/2" Durock NexGen and then top with 1" cut stone or thicker.

 

[Nelson]

Thanks all. Looks like 1/2" Micore Fiber Board will get me just over R1 and 2 1/4" stone gets me up over the R=1.06 requirement.

R-values

1/2" Micore = 1.03
1" natural stone (limestone) = .06

It's interesting because this is a masonry fireplace built to burn directly in it - seems odd that an insert would have this additional requirement. Anyone know what that is with this insert (and others)?