Use of industrial charcoal in a Hampton HI300 to increase nighttime burning?

[prosperousyogi]

I am grateful to this forum. Just surfing has answered most questions. I would have some questions to the experts on this site.

I am a new owner of a gorgeous Hampton HI300 in the cold, cold, capital city of Ottawa in Canada.

1) In order to increase nighttime burning, does it make sense to buy a load of industrial charcoal and make a bed of charcoal + throw on some logs at nighttime before going to bed?

2) Or alternatively, would it hurt if I buy a small load of anthracite bricks and put one on each night to carry it through the night? (Yes, I would only put one on to avoid overheating, as I believe anthracite might burn at a too high temperature?)

3) The auto setting of the fan on my Hampton HI300 never seems to come on. Does anybody else have that problem? So I've used the manual setting a lot. I measured that the "low" setting of the fan consumes only 34W of electricity, i.e. low enough that it seems to make sense to run it all the time?

5) The salesman said that while the Hampton HI300 does not come with a screen option, it has the exact same firebox as another Hampton model that does, and so running the unit with the door open with a blazing fire should not create any problem. (to create romantic moments with my wife!) Would you have any strong caution against that?

6) Does it make any sense / is it possible to install a thermometer inside the firebox so I can learn about proper temperature and what's needed for secondary combustion? I am still learning about this. Indeed, I have not figured out yet what the iron rods with the holes in the top of the firebox are for. Is this where the secondary combustion takes place? Or how the smoke escapes? From my naive amateur's perspective, I thought I want to keep the inside temperature of the firebox low, so that heat does not escape through the chimney. But it seems that the temperature should be quite high for secondary combustion to take place, and then somehow most of the heat will remain in the firebox, as opposed to escape up the chimney. (?)

I thank in advance any kind consideration of my questions.

The ProsperousYogi

 

[burntime]

1. Don't do it man, too hot, and it may be acidic to the liner if I remember right?
2. See rule #1
3. Pull the blower and the look for the snapdisc, its about the size of a 50 cent piece, bend it forward so that it touches the firebox, you probably are not making contact and it will not pick up enough heat to kick in.
4. Apparently 4 does not exist in Canada :cheese:
5. You would never heat the place with a screen in it. It is the same or very similiar to its sister the regency I2400. The glass is a better view...
6. Set a rutland on the shlf towards the surround, 200 is ok...350 is cooking baby. The tubes are secondary air burn tubes. It burns the gasses and extend the burn and cleaner burn. Get it going with the rod open, once going well choke it down(it depends on your chimney, if lined, to determine the right amount)
You will want to get a half kettle to keep humidity in the home.

BTW, nice stove %-P

 

[prosperousyogi]

Thank you "burntime" for your answer, please permit me follow-up questions:

1) I try to understand to how adding industrial charcoal as fuel to the Hampton is different from the red embers that are created when the wood burns properly? How are they different?

2) For the installation of the Rutland thermometer, by "shelf towards the surround", do you mean the flat surface that protrudes from the top of the Hampton firebox (and where I keep my tea warm)? If it is not this, where should I place it?

3) To help the fire, I also use two little cast iron bars on the sides, and place the big logs on them. That way, it keeps the wood half an inch from the bricks. Fire starting becomes much easier that way. Once the logs are falling apart, they descend onto the brick. I know the manual says no grate should be used, but to be honest, it makes getting a fire going much easier. Would you be concerned about that?

 

[berlin]

what is "industrial charcoal" ??

there is either real-wood charcoal or charcoal brickets (mostly anthracite coal, some realwood charcoal and clay binder)

then there is actual COAL, which is mined from the earth and can be anything from anthracite to lignite and everything in between; which if you have a thin 304 stainless liner will produce pinholes in it after 3-5 years of burning coal, adding coal just at night to extend burntimes may not result in such a quick death of your liner, but it may. ideally you would have just a clay flue tile liner for burning coal, or 316ti stainless.

 

[burntime]

No problem, always happy to help.
1. coal is different then wood. If you do a search I think it is acidic to the liner or something like that. I think it also hits higher temps. I don't remember the exacts but it has been asked before.
2. Yes on the thermometer. Just move it over to 1 side a little to accomidate the kettle.
3. Loose the androns, they are nnot needed. The heat transfer to the bricks warms the firebox and aids in secondary burn.

 

[prosperousyogi]

Thank you .. so the only remaining question is on the "industrial charcoal" to help carry the fire through the night. It's just regular hardwood charcoal, but available in big bags (as opposed to BBQ size), as that charcoal is also used to fire up small-scale copper smelters. Since it's just regular hardwood charcoal, it should in theory be pretty much the same as the red ember that the logs make (red embers just being another word for charcoal, I venture to say) .. so throwing on some additional charcoal should not hurt? I'd appreciate an answer to this so I can feel comfortable that I am not destroying my stove.

The ProsperousYogi

 

[burntime]

I can not give you an answer to that one. If it is wood...I say try it in small amounts since it is not coal. The reality is pack the firebox and you should get an overnight burn. How long are you looking for? I load up the stove and damper it down 10 minutes later and go to bed by 10pm, I can easily relite it with a few smaller pieces at 6am. I could probably go longer. With the new plate and liner I can damper it down more so I think it may be longer yet.

 

[EddyKilowatt]

6) Does it make any sense / is it possible to install a thermometer inside the firebox so I can learn about proper temperature and what's needed for secondary combustion? I am still learning about this. Indeed, I have not figured out yet what the iron rods with the holes in the top of the firebox are for. Is this where the secondary combustion takes place? Or how the smoke escapes?
The ProsperousYogi

Adding a thermometer (or two) is the most cost-effective thing you can do to run your stove better... other than maybe keeping the glass clean so you can see what's going on in there. Running a thermometer right into the firebox seems to be rare, since that's a pretty tough thermal/mechanical/chemical environment in there, and is inside layers of iron and brick. But adding a flue-temperature thermometer right at the stove's flue collar is very nearly as good in terms of response time and sensitivity to what is going on in the firebox. From the stove trade you can buy various "flue temperature" gadgets that estimate flue gas temperature based on the stove pipe surface temperature (and some of them even look like stem-type thermometers). Or better, you can track down an actual industrial stem-type bimetallic dial thermometer, like this one...

(broken image removed) Tech Instrumentation Inc

... that actually measures the interior flue temperature, and responds quicker and is less affected by room conditions than the surface thermometers.

I myself use a (broken link removed to http://www.teltru.com/default.asp) dial thermometer, but they seem to have ceased internet direct sales. I have no experience with Tech Instrumentation, but a Google of something like "stem dial thermometer" will turn up lots of possibilities... look for stainless construction and a 200-1000F range. Another possiblity is a thermocouple-type kiln thermometer... there seem to be lots of amateur pottery and stained-glass folks with kilns, so these can be found at reasonable (non-industrial) prices.

From my naive amateur's perspective, I thought I want to keep the inside temperature of the firebox low, so that heat does not escape through the chimney. But it seems that the temperature should be quite high for secondary combustion to take place, and then somehow most of the heat will remain in the firebox, as opposed to escape up the chimney. (?)

Yeah, that's kind of a conundrum. You really want the firebox temperature high, in order to encourage full combustion of both the wood, and the gas and smoke that is driven out of it. And then, you want to extract as much heat as possible from the resulting hot exhaust gas before sending it outside. BUT, burning wood, you are limited by two other factors, the first being that your stove is a draft-powered device and needs *some* heat up the stack in order to run, and the second and more important being that you seldom or never want temperatures anywhere in your flue to fall below the condensation point, or you'll crud up the stack with creosote and other nasty stuff. Ideally I guess you'd run things so that the smoke leaves your chimney cap at 213F, but for safety and practicality it probably needs to be much hotter than that.

So you basically have to accept that your woodstove is always going to be less efficient than one of those 98% efficient gas furnaces with forced draft, condensate drain, and PVC exhaust pipe ( :bug: )... and concentrate on burning cleanly (no smoke) and safely (no condensation). There's a lot of satisfaction in doing those two things... and plenty of heat as well.

Eddy

 

[begreen]

If "industrial" charcoal is the same as regular charcoal briquettes, then it is not pure wood, but had coal dust added. It might be safe, but I can't give a definitive answer on whether it would achieve the purpose. of longer burns.

I'd hold off with experiments and instead, learn the stove over a season, an improve burning techniques. A thermometer is a great start. Maybe burntime can post a picture of where he has placed his.

 

[JayD]

“industrial charcoal” He's talking about Lump Charcoal, Like you you us in the Green Egg BBQs you know the Good old kind. He should be fine 100% wood. It is also used in forges for knife making ect.

 

[Beanscoot]

"4. Apparently 4 does not exist in Canada "

Yeah, we got rid of the number 4 back in '77. I can't believe you guys still use it!
I suppose you're still driving Pacers, too.

 

[prosperousyogi]

Thank you very much to all the contributors for your time to reply. I really appreciate it.

The ProsperousYogi