Used and abused OWB with pic's. Is it salvagable?

[Gotburned!]

Hello.

I admit that at this point I know very little about OWB's. I haven't done much research on it yet. I've been burning for over a decade, mostly using a wood burning fireplace insert installed in a masonry fireplace.

This OWB has got to be as old as the house (15 years) but it has not been taken care of. The blower & pump work. It's connected to the downstairs air handler only, just HVAC.

I don't know how long it was operated while in this condition, so I don't know if there's debris in the water lines coming into the heat exchanger and if that can be flushed out.

When I bought the house I installed a high efficiency wood burning fireplace which provides all the heat right now. The only other form of heat I have are the HVAC heat strips which I do not use. I did use them in conjunction with the fireplace last year and had a $300 power bill one month, my average power bill being $100 and now with solar power, almost nothing, but these heat strips will kill my batteries in a couple hours (17kw per hr heat strips).

My unit is something like the first two in the below link. The unit, minus the steel structure that supports it above and to the concrete measures 4 1/2' x 4 1/2' x 6'
https://earthoutdoorfurnaces.com/furnaces/ and I have no idea how much water it holds.

Any good advice? Should I shoot it, chop it up and dump it or is it worth salvaging?

 

[salecker]

Scrap it if those are pictures of it.

 

[salecker]

And if those are pictures of it scrap the underground lines as well

 

[sloeffle]

And if those are pictures of it scrap the underground lines as well

Agree 100%. I'd hate to know how many BTU's have been sent to the ground due to the junky underground lines.

 

[Gotburned!]

Yeah, those are pictures of it. I've got a guy coming to look at it later this week who used to install them and operate his own. I have a feeling he's going to say the same thing.

 

[Gotburned!]

Agree 100%. I'd hate to know how many BTU's have been sent to the ground due to the junky underground lines.

What do you mean by junky underground lines? The water lines loose efficiency because they're contaminated?

 

[3fordasho]

What do you mean by junky underground lines? The water lines loose efficiency because they're contaminated?

Water intrusion past the black corrugated outer lining sucks your heat into the ground. Plus the few wraps of bubble wrap insulation around the inner pex lines is pretty suspect as well. The good stuff that won't do that is $12-$16/foot.
Some guys save a bit by doing spray foam in trench method to surround your PEX tubing but even this method can fail if not done correctly.
The expensive tubing is the longest lasting and foolproof.

 

[3fordasho]

REHAU 1 INCH INSULATED UNDERGRO-REHAU 1 INCH INSULATED FOAM

www.freeheat4u.com

or search thermopex

 

[brenndatomu]

Agree 100%. I'd hate to know how many BTU's have been sent to the ground due to the junky underground lines.

For real! Scary numbers I'm sure!

 

[Gotburned!]

Water intrusion past the black corrugated outer lining sucks your heat into the ground. Plus the few wraps of bubble wrap insulation around the inner pex lines is pretty suspect as well. The good stuff that won't do that is $12-$16/foot.
Some guys save a bit by doing spray foam in trench method to surround your PEX tubing but even this method can fail if not done correctly.
The expensive tubing is the longest lasting and foolproof.

Thank you for the explanation.
You don't like my blue bubble wrap insulation then? Ha. I know. It looks like the installers kid did that or something.

As for the outer lining, I do believe it's been spray foamed. That's what I see as the water lines and comm lines enter into it. I have no idea if it's been foamed all the way through. I could check the other end, where it exits into the crawl space but they could've just sprayed the ends. I don't know if there's been any water intrusion. With all the panels up and the door closed, I don't see a way for the water to enter unless it's passing through the outer lining.

If I were able to clean out all the contamination ( rusted metal and who knows what else as mice were dwelling up here) could I not flush the lines, pumping water through to be sure it will circulate, make the needed repairs to the unit and heat my house with it?

 

[Gotburned!]

For real! Scary numbers I'm sure!

I had a drolet 1400i. That little chit kicked some butt in my 1800 sq ft house in NC.

 

[Gotburned!]

So ya'll sound like you think these water lines might be a worse thing than the boilers condition?
I haven't seen anyone write "oh damn, that boiler is boiled!"

 

[3fordasho]

Thank you for the explanation.
You don't like my blue bubble wrap insulation then? Ha. I know. It looks like the installers kid did that or something.

As for the outer lining, I do believe it's been spray foamed. That's what I see as the water lines and comm lines enter into it. I have no idea if it's been foamed all the way through. I could check the other end, where it exits into the crawl space but they could've just sprayed the ends. I don't know if there's been any water intrusion. With all the panels up and the door closed, I don't see a way for the water to enter unless it's passing through the outer lining.

If I were able to clean out all the contamination ( rusted metal and who knows what else as mice were dwelling up here) could I not flush the lines, pumping water through to be sure it will circulate, make the needed repairs to the unit and heat my house with it?

Only one way to know - accurately measure the water temp at the start of the pipe run and then at the end for both lines. Should not see much of a drop if the lines are good.

If there is contamination in the lines themselves, that is flushable. Contaminated heat exchanger will not be so easy.

 

[Gotburned!]

I'll report back here as to what the former owb installer thinks, if he's willing to get it going and for how much $.

 

[sloeffle]

On a good set of lines you’ll loose 1 degree per 100’. My lines are roughly 50’ long and I loose 0 degrees.

With the cheap foam filled lines I’ve heard of guys loosing 6 - 10 degrees in a 100 foot run. Multiply that heat loss by 150 - 180 days a year x 24 hours a day. You are talking multiple cords of extra wood per year in some cases.

IMHO I’d cut the boiler up for scrap. If you want to get another boiler I’d scrap the current line set and spend the $$$ on a good line set.

 

[peakbagger]

Can you get it running again? probably, should you? definitely not. Its gonna be a wood hog and when there is no heat demand you will smoke out the neighborhood and your house. If you have kids, even worse, their lungs are still developing and all the particulate is not good for them.

 

[Gotburned!]

Man, you guys are great. Thank you all very much for the feedback.
I'm going to measure the distance between the boiler and heat exchanger tomorrow, but it's at or less than 50' away.
My plan wouldn't be to run it all the time. Up until some recent low 20* nights, this fireplace is more than adequate for my 2,600 sq ft. I'd probably run the boiler from mid November to mid-March and would always have the fireplace going as it puts off a lot of radiant heat, much like a stove, but it also heats the air. I suppose I'd be doing the opposite of what most guys would as the owb would be the primary heat source. Instead, I think it would end up being supplemental.
I have no experience with an owb, so I might be talking out my ass.

 

[Gotburned!]

I measured from the boiler to the crawlspace, adding 3' to the measurement assuming the lines are buried 3' and came up with 45'. From the crawlspace to the utility room floor then up to the heat exchanger is another 14', so total distance is 59'. The lines are not insulated in the laundry/utility room and I can't remember if they're insulated in the crawlspace, but I could easily insulate them in these areas as well as the exposed area at the boiler.
Does this information change anyone's outlook on the viability of these water lines?

 

[sloeffle]

Most insurance companies want the boiler a minimum of 50' away from an insured building. If the boiler can be put in a building that's a different story. I'd consult with your insurance company before firing it up too.

 

[salecker]

I measured from the boiler to the crawlspace, adding 3' to the measurement assuming the lines are buried 3' and came up with 45'. From the crawlspace to the utility room floor then up to the heat exchanger is another 14', so total distance is 59'. The lines are not insulated in the laundry/utility room and I can't remember if they're insulated in the crawlspace, but I could easily insulate them in these areas as well as the exposed area at the boiler.
Does this information change anyone's outlook on the viability of these water lines?

Nope
I would be willing to bet hard earned money they have bubble wrap inside the black coating.

 

[Gotburned!]

Most insurance companies want the boiler a minimum of 50' away from an insured building. If the boiler can be put in a building that's a different story. I'd consult with your insurance company before firing it up too.

Nationwide requires 25'.

 

[Gotburned!]

Nope
I would be willing to bet hard earned money they have bubble wrap inside the black coating.

You know, I agree. I was going to ask if it cut it open but there's no way they would've been able to get spray foam into the black plastic liner, especially with everything in it.
So, because of a lack of insulation around the water lines, this setup is a huge energy looser.
Is it possible that because I'm in a warm zone 6 that there wasn't a need for extremely insulated lines? It's odd that the original owners would've cheeped out on something that's not too expensive. The insulated dual wall pipe I bought for the fireplace was $2,400 for 20'. Now that's pricy, but this boiler pipe, 15 years ago might've been $12 a foot or less? That's $700. Considering all that was done, either they just didn't know any better or they didn't see the benefit because of modest average winter temps.

 

[maple1]

I suspect not knowing any better. It's a very common issue with older installs.

 

[BJP]

You know, I agree. I was going to ask if it cut it open but there's no way they would've been able to get spray foam into the black plastic liner, especially with everything in it.
So, because of a lack of insulation around the water lines, this setup is a huge energy looser.
Is it possible that because I'm in a warm zone 6 that there wasn't a need for extremely insulated lines? It's odd that the original owners would've cheeped out on something that's not too expensive. The insulated dual wall pipe I bought for the fireplace was $2,400 for 20'. Now that's pricy, but this boiler pipe, 15 years ago might've been $12 a foot or less? That's $700. Considering all that was done, either they just didn't know any better or they didn't see the benefit because of modest average winter temps.

Look very closely at the corrugated black tubing. It may be, and very likely is, drain tile, which will be full of holes because it is meant for draining groundwater out of an area. If they cheaped out at install and bought that, it was probably a tenth (or less) of the cost of proper boiler piping.

I bought my current home about 8 years ago. It had a used and abused boiler about 75' away from the house, with corrugated drain tile that had blue-wrapped pex lines inside it, run about 7' underground. It worked fine the first couple years. Eventually the protection they had put in the ground above the drain tile (basically sheets of styrofoam) failed. At that point the whole in the wall in the basement where the boiler line came in became a drain for all the groundwater in my backyard as snow melted. Water poured into the basement. I spent about 2 weeks awake nearly 24/7 swapping out 5 gallon buckets I had set up under the incoming line to collect the water, with a bucket filling roughly every 30 minutes until the yard was mostly dry, and after that I still had to check it once every few hours until snowmelt was finished.

If that's drain tile, it's gonna fail, no matter what they may have done to protect it with sprayfoam or anything else. When it fails you're going to have a really bad time. It's not just about the heat loss but about that ticking time bomb.

 

[salecker]

You know, I agree. I was going to ask if it cut it open but there's no way they would've been able to get spray foam into the black plastic liner, especially with everything in it.
So, because of a lack of insulation around the water lines, this setup is a huge energy looser.
Is it possible that because I'm in a warm zone 6 that there wasn't a need for extremely insulated lines? It's odd that the original owners would've cheeped out on something that's not too expensive. The insulated dual wall pipe I bought for the fireplace was $2,400 for 20'. Now that's pricy, but this boiler pipe, 15 years ago might've been $12 a foot or less? That's $700. Considering all that was done, either they just didn't know any better or they didn't see the benefit because of modest average winter temps.

Salesmen...
They pushed the OWB like they were getting a commission, along with those underground lines.
"yea you can burn anything in it"
Before i found this site i was all ready to put down hard earned money on the drainpipe lines, and a almost useless outdoor water heater.
After a few months of reading the original ideas all got scrapped.The lines and water heater would have made for a hard winters of trying to heat my house,plus long falls of gathering twice as much wood as i do.
I was lucky, i took others lessons and learned from them.