Used Stove...rust and delimma...

[Lasher]

I have a delimma. My neighbor down the road gave me a used stove (he got an outside boiler) for free. I had somebody come over for an inspection and estimate to install but I think he scared my wife. So I am posting on here to get your opinions. (I have read for hours on here about this and other stove topics.)

Stove:
Avalon model 1196 (older Olympic)
Built - 1991
Firebrick in good condition (recently replaced)
Secondary burn tubes in good condition (replaced about 3 years ago)
Blower - older style (off,low,high) only one side works and rattles.
Glass in door is missing
Gaskets (door, glass) need replacing
All adjustment knobs work without sticking.
Surface rust on top near pipe (was installed with direct connect) and on some of the outside of the stove. None of the rust appears to be anything but surface rust. I do not think it was used in the last year or so, and kept in a garage in that time.

I called a chimney sweep to get and estimate on installing a liner and look at the stove. On the phone he sounded pretty good, but when he got here I started to wonder about him. First thing he did is look at the stove. He walked round it (it is on a dolly) and then bent down (2 feet away) and looked inside. I offered a light to him, but he said no. As we walked inside to look at the fireplace, he mentioned that the stove is older would be fine, maybe not as efficient as the newer models. He said that the insert did not have the ability to make the air circle around (secondary burn I assume he was talking about) like the newer models. But I thought that this model (and the tubes on the top) have secondary burn. From looking at the new Olympic manual, that functionality design seems the same, secondary burn tubes and air flow direction when I close the damper. As for the fireplace inspection, he stuck his head in and looked around. Everything looked good he said.

Around this time my wife came home and asked some questions. How safe, etc. He seemed to change a little and suddenly he mentions that he can get some stove as dealer cost. Of course, he mentioned that he make nothing on the stove, but pushing a model. One that have not heard on here, so I would gather not one of the good inserts. Cost was going to be about $1600 for the stove. A smaller model than I was looking at. My house is about 2200 sqft, open floor plan. He gave the estimate for the liner install ($1700) and the price of the stove. During the time he was here, he pushed about not putting in the used stove (mentioned rust) and getting the newer model. As you can tell, my wife is nervous about this whole thing. So she asked the guy if he installs the glass on the door. His answer...Nope. Besides knowing that installing the glass is really easy, how can I trust this guy to inspect a stove when he cannot even put on a glass door.

Now my wife is nervous about the used stove. I called a stove dealer today (one that takes the time to talk to me and not rush me to come to the store) and asked them. They said to not worry about the rust, steel wool and paint and I would be all set. I am going to call them back tomorrow and ask if I brought the stove to them, could they look at it, since they are across the state.

But my question to all you is this. How much is surface rust an issue on the insert? From research, I know this is nice stove and should handle the job of heating our house.

My plan at this time...
Replace door glass and gaskets
Replace blower motor
Clean chimney
Install 6 inch flex liner in entire chimney with insulation (I have 13x13 flue) (another post soon on this)
Install insert and get inspection (no permit, just inspection after installation)

But now I have to make my wife understand that her fears are not founded. I have been around wood stove since I was little, and have researched on here for hours. I am doing everything I learned reading and every says to do the installation myself. I am not scared of heights on the ladder (painted houses during high school and college) so I want to save as much money as possible, not to mention make sure the job is done correctly.

Since this is an insert, can I still do the light test, or something else to test the stove?

 

[gpcollen1]

I do not know if the Olympic you have is the same design as mine (1999??)- but if it is, it is worth getting it back in shape if all it needs is the glass and a few gaskets. And if it is the same design, you can get a new blower for a few hundred bucks. As for the rust, a little sanding and a fresh coat of paint works wonders!

Did it come with the insert surround panels and are they the right size? You will need a block off plate too.

 

[Lasher]

From the guy at the stove place, the manual and here, not much has changed over the years. Glass is about $100, blower about $245 and gaskets are cheap. It is just a matter of easing my wife's fears.

 

[begreen]

The glass will probably be around (estim.) $100? Are there any signs of overfiring? Surface rust can be a non-issue, but it would help for you to post a picture here of the stove. If the rust is superficial and the stove is otherwise in good, solid condition then it may be fine. I'd also examine the baffle above the secondary tubes to make sure it isn't warped. This was an early clean burning design and was built solid. There are still a lot of them around out here. As long as the welds are in good shape and the rust is superficial, clean it up, shine it, paint it and put in the new glass. Your wife might change her mind to see it fixed up.

My bigger concern is the flue system. If the stove is less than satisfactory, it can be replaced. A flue system you want to do once and do it right. Did the chimney sweep get up on the roof and examine the chimney flue from the top down? Did his price include a cleaning, block off plate? Is the liner insulated?

BTW, what was the brand of stove he mentioned for sale?

 

[Harley]

Hi Lasher

I think you are on the right track. The surface rust on the stove is not an issue. Scrub with steel wool or wire brush, looking for any cracks. If there are none, paint it. While you are doing some, you might as well replace all the gaskets now, just so you don't have to do it later. Vacuum out the inside, including baffles, etc. and look for any damage there. Get the right glass and install. Your stove would be cleaned up and ready to go.

Once the chimney is cleaned and inspected, and if you are comfortabe with doing the liner youself, drop it in - it is pretty easy. You may need to insulate the liner depending on the whether the chimney is interior or exterior. Seal it up at the bottom with a block off place and the stove will be ready to go and you saved a lot of money in the process.

After the installation of the stove and inspection. Give the stove you have a try. If it doesn't meet your expextations, or your wife is still too nervous with it.... then go shopping. You will already have the liner and a good setup for the next stove.

 

[Lasher]

I did not notice any signs of overfire. But I will check again. I will see what I can do about pictures. How do you look at the baffle? Remove the burn tubes?

Flue...I we brought this house 2 years ago and had the chimney inspected. Everything was good. We have only had a few nightly fires a week in winter since. But the guy did not inspect from the top down. He never got out a ladder, which is why I am wondering about what he is saying about the stove. His price included cleaning the flue, installing a 30 foot HomeSaver liner with insulation, not a wrap, but Theramix or something. Block off plate, cap and stove install. I will have to dig up the estimate. The stove began with a "D" and was in the same catelog as Neoplian. I will look online and see if I can find it.

My concern was if I had a 8x8 flue, that it would be a tough job, especially with insulation. But when he told me that I had a 13x13, I knew I could just wrap the pipe and install.

 

[Lasher]

Hi Harley,

It is an exterior chimney, so I will be putting in a liner for better draft and safety.

My bonus will only go so far. I cannot buy a new stove and have the liner put in. If I buy a new stove, I will have no money left over for the liner, but there are not many options around here for chimney sweeps to install the liner and stove. There was this last guy that came over, he was high priced or another company that sounded too cheap. The other place I called were cheaper for a liner, but they will use a 5 1/2 inch liner and ovalize to get past the damper. Sounded like they take the easy way out. I am pretty handy, from home repairs to auto repairs and do everything myself.

You guys have eased my mind, I just need to convince the wife to let go of her fears. The chimney guy that came out told her that an insert is safe to burn, she just does not trust this older stove.

 

[Lasher]

BeGreen - he was trying to seel the Drolet brand insert.

 

[struggle]

You I hope are going to install the liner yourself?

Please make that a consideration and read up on block off plates. Installing the liner is very straight forward if you do not have to make any sharp bends.

You could save yourself a cool grand by doing it yourself.

 

[Lasher]

Struggle - I am planning on doing it myself. I have been reading about block off plates, insulation and everything else about the liner installation. That grand I save would be really nice.

 

[JimWalshin845]

Hi Harley,

You guys have eased my mind, I just need to convince the wife to let go of her fears. The chimney guy that came out told her that an insert is safe to burn, she just does not trust this older stove.

This is a tuffie... :question:

spend $250 for a revamp and $5,000+ for a divorce

or

$1500+ for a new stove.

Hmmm.. let me think about this? :coolhmm:

 

[Lasher]

Jim - your funny. But a divorce would cost a lot more than that with two kids. Not to mention the fight over the dog!

But we need to do something about heat. Right now propane is running $3.12 a gallon and I have the house set at 62 degrees. Too cold for me, and the wife is freezing. I figure that heat this winter would cost me about 3 grand. The last two years it was about 2 grand for the winter months, and that a dollar a gallon cheaper. Plus, I love a wood fire. So much that I put a fire in the open fireplace when I can. The comfy feeling of a fire overrides the wasted heat going up the chimney.

A new stove will run us over 2 grand. Closer to 3 for the ones we like without the liner. So either I do the liner the right way now, and refurb the old Olympic for now. And then a year or two down the road upgrade to something newer. Or just skip the insert for another year. The cold hard wood floors, propane bills and the fact my wife is wearing more clothes than a eskimo is making me lean towards getting the insert in.

 

[budman]

Get that puppy installed now and stay warm. :coolsmirk:

 

[JimWalshin845]

Hey Lasher,

First I forgot to welcome you to the forums... and I am glad you took my post tongue-in-cheek.

I would definitely say GO-For-It!

If the stove is defective you blew away a couple of hundred and it you clean it out real well, do dollar bill tests, light in stove test before you put any money into it I think you are on the road to a good stove install.

It appears you know what end of the hammer to hold and a screw driver does NOT have one too many moving parts so should be a no brainer as per the install.

We have a 30+ year old stove that runs great and is in excellent shape so age is not always a problem (tell my body that :-S ).

Maybe have your spouse talk to the neighbor as to how it ran SAFELY... besides that I really can't think of any other way to convince her. Maybe she is using it as an excuse as to get any stove!

Good luck in your quest and you can add in the fact that your wife will be able to cut down on her clothing budget too! ;-P

 

[Burn-1]

Lasher I am in a somewhat similar situation where my wife had extreme reservations about putting a stove in the house mainly because she grew up in a house where her father ran an old smoke dragon, (poorly), and everything smelled like smoke and they had a couple chimney fires. I just rehabbed an older Pacific Energy freestanding stove and put it in my fireplace. I bought a 20 foot stainless liner and installed it myself and spent about $500 or so all told. It works great, no smoke smell, less money to the oil man and safe. I say go for it. My kernel of advice is to fix it up and paint it in a garage and burn off the paint outside if you can. That will work marital wonders.

Everything you have done so far has been thoroughly well thought out with safety and energy efficiency in mind. You have the stove. A liner install is pretty easy and the parts and rehab for your stove will run short money compared to a newer stove, probably $1,000 or so. The larger obstacle seems to be your wife's reticence. Get her involved and make sure she understands her stake in it. I let my wife pick out the color of Stove-Bright for the repaint and the hearth accessories at Target. I got the stove and she got something that looks nice that she likes. One of her real objections was how the stove would look. No sense in winning the argument to lose the sale. Also, money that you spend now whether for this used one or something new is an insurance payment against further increases in petroleum costs.

 

[Jimbob]

There's probably nothing wrong with the Drolet insert, but why spend $1600 when you can get away with ~ $400, all told.
Like the poster above said, let wife pick out color of paint SHE wants, and have at 'er.

If you are handy, you might be able to repair that blower. Check the surplus supply houses for replacement motor(s) for the blower assembly.

 

[Hogwildz]

I did not notice any signs of overfire. But I will check again. I will see what I can do about pictures. How do you look at the baffle? Remove the burn tubes?

Flue...I we brought this house 2 years ago and had the chimney inspected. Everything was good. We have only had a few nightly fires a week in winter since. But the guy did not inspect from the top down. He never got out a ladder, which is why I am wondering about what he is saying about the stove. His price included cleaning the flue, installing a 30 foot HomeSaver liner with insulation, not a wrap, but Theramix or something. Block off plate, cap and stove install. I will have to dig up the estimate. The stove began with a "D" and was in the same catelog as Neoplian. I will look online and see if I can find it.
If you speak to the installer again, and ask about a "block off plate" I bet what you think he is saying as block off plate is in reality a top plate up at top. The block off plate he will most likely try to talk you out of (don't let him). You need both a top plate, and a block off plate at bottom under damper. You can cut the damper out to take the round liner. The stove will clean up very easily with a drill with wire wheel. Paint it, and wallah, that puppy will look good as new. As already stated, inspect the inside real good. He is full of chit by telling you he makes nothing on the stove, thats just plain ol bs. Inspect the one ya have, clean her up, paint her, put it in with a new liner top plate, cap & lower block off plate. And then enjoy. Get some photos of the stove & fireplace & chimney for us, that will help alot.

My concern was if I had a 8x8 flue, that it would be a tough job, especially with insulation. But when he told me that I had a 13x13, I knew I could just wrap the pipe and install.

 

[Webwidow]

Howdy Lasher,
I used to sell loads of the 1196 and IMHO it is fine easy to use stove. In fact it was one of our fav stove to sell, for its ease of use and quality.
The 1196 firebox can be installed as a freestanding by adding its stove legs, as an fireplace insert with or without the fireplace panels.
I would not concern myself with the surface rust, it is a thick steel stove. To be safe and satisfy any concerns clean it up with steel wood and examine.
Firebrick is no biggie either, nice that it is in good condition tho.
Check out the burn tubes well, easy to replace.
Glass is expensive but very easy to install yourself. Replacing gasket is just general maintenance.
Just an fyi we did many fireplace installs without the surround panels. This way the heat would not be trapped behind panels and the blower was not as necessary. Personally I'd rather not rely on electricity or hear the blower but that's just my bias.
The 1196 might have had Kaowool on top of the baffle, check your manual, not a biggie either way.
Tell your wife it is a good stove, finances being a concern you did well. A little high temp paint it will be pretty too. Enjoy

Stove:
Avalon model 1196 (older Olympic)
Built - 1991
Firebrick in good condition (recently replaced)
Secondary burn tubes in good condition (replaced about 3 years ago)
Blower - older style (off,low,high) only one side works and rattles.
Glass in door is missing
Gaskets (door, glass) need replacing
All adjustment knobs work without sticking.
Surface rust on top near pipe (was installed with direct connect) and on some of the outside of the stove. None of the rust appears to be anything but surface rust. I do not think it was used in the last year or so, and kept in a garage in that time.

 

[begreen]

Hmm, that no profit Drolet wouldn't perchance be this model for $849 would it?
http://www.shop.com/Drolet_Fireplace_Wood_Insert,_Model_35_DB03120-32887854-p!.shtml?trk=2

If it is, you can probably do the whole job yourself, including a new stove for the $1700 budget.

 

[Burn-1]

BG it looks like the link is bad or may have changed. This link is where I found that insert on the Shop.com site.

That is a pretty stunning price. I think those Drolets are looking pretty good.

Thumbnail budget

Insert 849.99
Faceplate 99.99, (sold separately at Northern Tool)
Shipping to CT ~$225
6 inch 30 ft liner kit for insert Liner from Chimney Liner Depot ~$479
30 ft insulation kit from Chimney Liner Depot ~$305

Total ~$1958

Wait! I just saw this on Chimney Liner Depot

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=350) so throw in another $305 for the insulation and you're just a shade over $1,800. Not bad at all.

 

[Lasher]

Yeah, that looks like the insert he was trying to sell me for $1600.

I had the wife read this thread last night and I think she is on board now with using the used 1196 (Olympic). Now it is on to continue my research into liners. I have almost a straight shot. My flue is about 1 foot off center from the fireplace. Other than that no bends, so I am looking into doing rigid in the top part and flex at last 5 feet or so.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

 

[begreen]

Keep going through the posts here on liners, new flues, etc. You will still need the chimney cleaned before installation, but there's probably no reason you can't do this yourself. Well maybe if the chimney is 40ft in the air you might want a pro, but it sounds like this is not the case here.

 

[Lasher]

I have searched all the liner topics until my eyes are about to bleed. Still not sure if I should just go flex with insulation or rigid insulated with flex at the bottom.

My chimney is about 30 feet in the air and probably difficult (roof pitch) to access from the roof. For the cleaning/install, I was thinking about renting a lift or scaffolding, or maybe just gut it out and go up the ladder.