using ash-pan door for high draft at start-up

[dvellone]

I'm opening the ash door on my castine just a crack at start-up and in the morning when there are just a few embers to get the fire off to a quick start.
Are there any problems with doing this conservatively?

 

[Brian VT]

I've heard that suggested a few times here. No problem, BUT don't ever leave it unattended like that.

 

[slindo]

Problem is, if you make it a regular habit, it is almost inevitable that the day will come when you get distracted, drift away, and come back to a red hot, seriously overfired stove. I don't know how much the potential is for damage on a Castine when this happens - is it all cast iron, or is there a delicate refractory package concealed inside as in Vermont Castings stoves? - but on my VC stove that can mean a cracked cat, warped fireback, and trashed refractory box.

But the flip side is, there often just ain't no other way to get a fire going!

I've heard that suggested a few times here. No problem, BUT don't ever leave it unattended like that.

 

[begreen]

I think if you dig back you will find more often it's discouraged here than recommended. The manual specifically says don't do it.

It's too easy to space out and forget that the ash pan door is ajar. This bottom feeds the fire with air and turns the stove into a mini-forge. This risks warping the bottom grate which definitely will void the stove warranty. Another risk is getting a serious backpuff if the wood is not very dry. When the ash pan door is closed the fire dies down and smolders, filling the firebox with smoke. If you open the ashpan door at that point, the air can flash ignite the smoke and create a serious explosion. (Don't ask how I know :red:.)


With good kindling and top down lighting, there really is no need to use the ashpan door. Just leave the main door open on its latch about 1/4" until the fire is burning well. Develop a better technique for starting a fire and you'll forget about the ashpan door.

 

[johnnywarm]

With good kindling and top down lighting, there really is no need to use the ashpan door. Just leave the main door open on its latch about 1/4" until the fire is burning well. Develop a better technique for starting a fire and you'll forget about the ashpan door.

BG do you have(or anybody) a pic of the setup of this "top down lighting"??? a simple pic before its lit??

Thanks John

 

[fossil]

Click on the video link here:

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1

I use basically that method, except without the hassle of the newspaper...just a quarter of a Super Cedar with some splitter trash beneath & above. I'll "nurse" it for a bit with more kindling until it's fully involved, but it beats the heck out of all other fire starting methods I've used over the years. Rick

EDIT: My stoves don't have ash pan doors, so I'm talking out of school here, but from everything I know, I wouldn't recommend that method. I will almost always leave the loading door cracked open while the fire's gaining strength, but I wouldn't do the same with an ash pan door.

 

[begreen]

If you have the bandwidth, here's a great Canadian video that shows the method:
http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1

here's a hearth forum link:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/17825/

more starting tips:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/13028/

 

[tutu_sue]

With our F3 CB stove, we used to open the ash door to get a "turbo start" in the mornings, until we blew out our ash housing gasket. The gasket was less than $10 but took months to get it.

 

[dvellone]

I think if you dig back you will find more often it's discouraged here than recommended. The manual specifically says don't do it.

It's too easy to space out and forget that the ash pan door is ajar. This bottom feeds the fire with air and turns the stove into a mini-forge. This risks warping the bottom grate which definitely will void the stove warranty. Another risk is getting a serious backpuff if the wood is not very dry. When the ash pan door is closed the fire dies down and smolders, filling the firebox with smoke. If you open the ashpan door at that point, the air can flash ignite the smoke and create a serious explosion. (Don't ask how I know :red:.)


With good kindling and top down lighting, there really is no need to use the ashpan door. Just leave the main door open on its latch about 1/4" until the fire is burning well. Develop a better technique for starting a fire and you'll forget about the ashpan door.

Thinking how fast the stove would heat up and the effect on the top of the firebox, I hadn’t considered the bottom grate where all the “action” is taking place.

I’ve never had a stove with an ash door and I have to admit it’ll be an awful temptation, but more importantly is keeping the castine in top working order.
Did it take long for your eyebrows to grow back in?

 

[woodconvert]

I'm opening the ash door on my castine just a crack at start-up and in the morning when there are just a few embers to get the fire off to a quick start.
Are there any problems with doing this conservatively?

I'm not familiar with the castine but ash door is a no-no. Use the any door above the floor of the stove but don't use the ash pan.

 

[begreen]

I think if you dig back you will find more often it's discouraged here than recommended. The manual specifically says don't do it.

It's too easy to space out and forget that the ash pan door is ajar. This bottom feeds the fire with air and turns the stove into a mini-forge. This risks warping the bottom grate which definitely will void the stove warranty. Another risk is getting a serious backpuff if the wood is not very dry. When the ash pan door is closed the fire dies down and smolders, filling the firebox with smoke. If you open the ashpan door at that point, the air can flash ignite the smoke and create a serious explosion. (Don't ask how I know :red:.)


With good kindling and top down lighting, there really is no need to use the ashpan door. Just leave the main door open on its latch about 1/4" until the fire is burning well. Develop a better technique for starting a fire and you'll forget about the ashpan door.

Thinking how fast the stove would heat up and the effect on the top of the firebox, I hadn’t considered the bottom grate where all the “action” is taking place.

I’ve never had a stove with an ash door and I have to admit it’ll be an awful temptation, but more importantly is keeping the castine in top working order.
Did it take long for your eyebrows to grow back in?

No eyebrow singe with that one, though it took about 30 minutes and a glass of wine to slow my heart down to normal. Scared the poop out of me. Windows and doors had to be opened to clear out the smoke.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I'm opening the ash door on my castine just a crack at start-up and in the morning when there are just a few embers to get the fire off to a quick start.
Are there any problems with doing this conservatively?

No.

 

[Dexter]

I have a Firelight CB. I talked with Jotul/tech. department a couple years ago on another issue. I asked about ash-door drafting (which I had occasionally done) out of curiosity. The tech said that I risked cracking from the left-rear of the ash-grate, to the left-rear of the bottom-plate of the fire-box. Further, he said it did NOT need over-firing to risk this. Rather, it was a matter of too great a temperature differential in different portions of that plate, as things heated up.

BTW, that is precisely where I found the crack. In my case, it was a hair-line crack, which I cemented over and smoothed. It does not draw air, and has been no further problem; you can be darn-sure I don't draft with the ash-door any more though.

Best Regards,

Dexter

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I'll probably be chastised for this but I used to do that all the time with several stoves. However, you must stay there at the stove if you do this and don't let it get going too much else big problems can occur. It is no doubt best to not do this at all though as it is too easy to get distracted and start doing something else. You could end up losing your home!

btw, I do leave the fire door open some on our present stove during early fall or late spring when starting a fire. In fact, I did this last evening when starting the fire as there were no coals left in the stove. This just gives extra draft to get the fire going to get some heat in the chimney. Again, stay with the stove and do not get distracted.

 

[begreen]

I think Dexter's post is right on. There's a chance of cracking or warping something due to the rapid change in temperature. You're far better off having good dry kindling or using a SuperCedar than risking damage to the stove and voiding the warranty.

 

[johnnywarm]

BG,Rick thanks for the video-----:coolsmile:

 

[wellbuilt home]

That method of fire starting led to the demise of my old trusty VC DW . My wife left the door open and cracked the stove top cooked the cat , warped the floor great cracked the fire brick . The stove ran like that for a few years but it was never the same . With oil at 5 bucks a gal i did not want to take a chance on needing a new stove mid winter so i replaced it this year with a hearthstone equinox. We wont be leaving the door open any more

 

[pumiglk]

Would echo the comments about top down. I never started a fire this way until this year when I read about it here. It rocks - 10/10 or so with the new stove without any BS tending and nursing. Dry wood, splitter scraps or a few peels of old birch bark, a 1/2 super cedar light and get on your way. I have even done it the way in the video with the knotted newspaper (supercedars are better). I crack the door may be 1/4- 1/2 inch until the box is fully involved and shut the door. This is the way to strat your morning

 

[dvellone]

I think if you dig back you will find more often it's discouraged here than recommended. The manual specifically says don't do it.

It's too easy to space out and forget that the ash pan door is ajar. This bottom feeds the fire with air and turns the stove into a mini-forge. This risks warping the bottom grate which definitely will void the stove warranty. Another risk is getting a serious backpuff if the wood is not very dry. When the ash pan door is closed the fire dies down and smolders, filling the firebox with smoke. If you open the ashpan door at that point, the air can flash ignite the smoke and create a serious explosion. (Don't ask how I know :red:.)


With good kindling and top down lighting, there really is no need to use the ashpan door. Just leave the main door open on its latch about 1/4" until the fire is burning well. Develop a better technique for starting a fire and you'll forget about the ashpan door.

Thinking how fast the stove would heat up and the effect on the top of the firebox, I hadn’t considered the bottom grate where all the “action” is taking place.

I’ve never had a stove with an ash door and I have to admit it’ll be an awful temptation, but more importantly is keeping the castine in top working order.
Did it take long for your eyebrows to grow back in?

No eyebrow singe with that one, though it took about 30 minutes and a glass of wine to slow my heart down to normal. Scared the poop out of me. Windows and doors had to be opened to clear out the smoke.

I've got to tell this story because of your "flash ignite the smoke" comment.
A few years back some neighbors of mine unfamiliar with woodstoves threw some kero on the smoldering kindling and splits they couldn't get going, lit a match and threw it in and bought a new stove a few weeks later. How he didn't get seriously injured I'll never figure out.
The castine is firing up nicely now with considerably lower temps.

 

[countrybois]

I use the ash pan door all of the time. If you don't have the common sense to pay close attention to your stove temps, you shouldn't be burning wood in your home.

 

[forby]

I know....I know... I'm a newbie.....

Sometimes however, even newbies can provide a bit of info because we are looking at things thru those "youthful eyes".

This is my first season. Break-in fires during August were easy to start because of the warm stainless stack. The first cold morning, I started a few sheets of crumpled paper in an empty firebox to warm the chimney. I quickly filled the room with smoke!!

I rationalized that the fire was too hot and fast so I came up with this method.

2 medium logs on the bottom with 5 sheets of balled up newspaper between them. 5-6 small sticks crosswise with 2 pieces of fatwood mixed in. Then I place 2 larger sticks of about 2 inches diameter across that. I light the 2 fatwoods only on one end and sit back.

The fatwood slowly warms up the pipe. It catches the small pieces under the fatwood which makes a slightly larger flame to further heat the pipe. Then, by the time that the top pieces really catch, the chimney is warm. Eventually, the newsprint bursts in flames for a boost. The rest is history.
I call it the big-small-medium stack lit in the middle.

I haven't spilled smoke because of a cold chimney since.

Gosh.... this is fun

BTW: I have been opening the ashpan for a few seconds to rush an occasionally slow refill. I never take my hand off of the handle as a safety measure. After reading things here, I think I will discontinue that practice.......

 

[Dexter]

No! And it's not (necessarily) because of overfiring.

 

[colebrookman]

I use the ash pan door all of the time. If you don't have the common sense to pay close attention to your stove temps, you shouldn't be burning wood in your home.

I confess that on rainy or poor draft days I use the ash pan door to get the fire to draft. Don't use it all the time but it could be very easy to get side tracked by phone calls, kids running around or in my case, oldtimers disease. Of course Jotul does not recommend it.
Ed

 

[begreen]

It is not about overfiring, though that is a possible outcome. It's about taking parts of the stove up in temp to rapidly as compared to other parts. And it's about overheating a very small area of the stove, the grate. Jotul and others specifically lists this as a warranty offense because they see problems related to it often. If one doesn't want to follow the manual and doesn't care about warranty, then why ask the question?

Recommending this as a regular practice is not good common sense, especially to new stove owners considering how easy it is to start the fire using other methods.

 

[polaris]

I have been guilty of this practice with both the Castine and the Oslo. Jotul clearly states not to do this for all the aforementioned reasons. I have done it with very dense not quite seasoned wood and when I was just plain cold and in a hurry but I'm going to make a good faith effort to refrain from this practice. (Jotuls are expensive)