Using Gassifier in a Residential Area

[JMann]

I am about to receive my Seton 90. I've been waiting for about six weeks for the delivery. During that time, I've been getting ready by doing tons of online research (PEX tubing, connectors, underground insulation, installation quotes, reading posts from HEARTH.com...). My install is in a neighborhood and I own a 3/4 acre lot. I'm putting the Seton in my detached garage and piping it inside from there. The chimney will be approx 25ft tall.

I bought the Seton because it is supposed to run clean (when operated properly), but during my online research, I've run across some sites that complain about OWB's smoke emissions. I would think that the chimney height and the fact that it is as efficient as the Greenwood (which is EPA certified) I should not have a problem. Should I be worried?

 

[Nofossil]

I don't know anything about the Seton specifically, but it's certainly possible to operate any boiler in a way that might cause neighborhood problems. Avoid green wood and extended idling and you'll be much better off. My EKO smokes like a fiend for the first six minutes every time I start it - I'm still working on ways to reduce that.

 

[JMann]

When running is it similar to the typical indoor fireplace (in regards to smoke)?

 

[Nofossil]

Does it smoke like a regular fireplace chimney at the start?

Yes, at least as bad. It takes six minutes of burning as a conventional non-gasifier with inadequate inlet air before it's hot enough to begin gasification.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I have an EKO gasifier in a residential area and I'll second what nofossil said. But when it's up to temp, it burns as clean as a whistle--unlike any OWB. I don't think five minutes worth of smoke once a day will cause you any problems, but I guess that depends on your neighbors. Remember--you're saving a fortune on heating bills and they're not; they're eating your smoke, and you're not. Don't expect a whole lot of understanding.

In my case, the prevailing winter winds are from the west, which blows any smoke I might be producing into the woods where there are no houses.

I can't speak for the Seton because I've never seen one work.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

EPA certification don't mean chit. The operator is the key to running VSF.

My biggest concern with your setup is that you are placing the hydronic inside a garage? Um, you may want to rethink that. Assuming the smoke path on the Seton is similar to the GW, you are going to have black drywall in about a week. Oh, and pull the battery out of the smoke detector too ;-)

 

[JMann]

No drywall (or cars) in the garage, only tools & carpentry equipment. It has two floors, which means the chimney will probably be about 25ft long.

 

[markpee]

I'm in Orange County, NY, and know of at least one town in OC that has banned OWB - I know nothing about your unit, but, as an EKO owner, that rule does not apply to it. Especially since it is more efficient than my oil furnace. Just today, there was an article online about a municipality that has banned OWB in Dutchess County, not far from here. Here's the link...

(broken link removed to http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/August08/27/Bea_otdr_furn-27Aug08.html)

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

No drywall (or cars) in the garage, only tools & carpentry equipment. It has two floors, which means the chimney will probably be about 25ft long.

That's not a garage. Installing wood-fired appliances in a garage violates NFPA rules.

That's a "storage room with overhead door."

Joe

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

I don't know anything about the Seton specifically, but it's certainly possible to operate any boiler in a way that might cause neighborhood problems. Avoid green wood and extended idling and you'll be much better off. My EKO smokes like a fiend for the first six minutes every time I start it - I'm still working on ways to reduce that.

Blast it with an oil burner to pre-heat it quickly? Might work, but probably not what you are looking for...

Joe

 

[webbie]

Some kindling is more smokeless than others....so keep that in mind. A design like the Seton might even take longer than others to get up to temp from a start - I think the key may be keeping it hot - running 24/7 in which case the refractories don't have to heat up as much.

That and pray for the right wind direction!

 

[jebatty]

I think a fast, small fire to get started will greatly reduce any start-up smoke. With my Tarm, on start-up I leave cracked open both the firebox door and the gasification chamber door, bypass damper open. Small kindling to start, then add a small amount of a little larger material, shut the doors, and almost immediately flames are blasting through the nozzle and up a hot chimney. It works well. On the other hand, 5-6 minutes of smoke is no more than happens on start-up with a regular wood stove.

 

[antknee2]

Hi JMann
The Seton will burn very smoke free if you have a load that keeps the boiler full throttle for a couple hours and your not afraid to fill the firebox to the level of the bottom of the loading door . Very easy if have a place for all the energy they produce . Do me a favor get a real good draft gauge and stack thermometer , other wise it's hard to set up the system and understand were your energy is going . Best of luck with your Seton
Anthony

 

[Redox]

I don't know anything about the Seton specifically, but it's certainly possible to operate any boiler in a way that might cause neighborhood problems. Avoid green wood and extended idling and you'll be much better off. My EKO smokes like a fiend for the first six minutes every time I start it - I'm still working on ways to reduce that.

Six minutes? I thought those things needed about 1/2 hour to begin gasifying.

I want one more than ever now, but there are so many hurdles. We are on a 1/4 acre in a valley and socked in with neighbors for miles. I could put up with six minutes of smoke...

Chris

 

[Nofossil]

Six minutes? I thought those things needed about 1/2 hour to begin gasifying.

I want one more than ever now, but there are so many hurdles. We are on a 1/4 acre in a valley and socked in with neighbors for miles. I could put up with six minutes of smoke...

Chris

The old EKO manual suggests 15 to 20 minutes before attempting gasification. I've got it down to 6, but my refractory labyrinth restricts airflow during the startup so I get a lot of smoke. I may try the trick mentioned above of leaving the upper door cracked.

I've heard some mention of building an upside down fire and starting the boiler in downdraft mode. I've had no luck with this, perhaps because the EKO controller runs the fans at max speed on startup. Way too much air.

 

[JMann]

Hi JMann
The Seton will burn very smoke free if you have a load that keeps the boiler full throttle for a couple hours and your not afraid to fill the firebox to the level of the bottom of the loading door . Very easy if have a place for all the energy they produce . Do me a favor get a real good draft gauge and stack thermometer , other wise it's hard to set up the system and understand were your energy is going . Best of luck with your Seton
Anthony

Thanks for the tip. Can you ballpark what a good draft gauge and stack thermometer would cost?

 

[smangold]

Just a suggestion,,, what about using biobricks to get the unit up to temp and then add wood when its hot.

 

[heaterman]

The numero uno item to concern yourself with is the moisture content of the wood. Get it between 15-25% and you'll be OK.


Sung to the tune of the Marine Corp cadence song:

Trouble starts at 25
I ain't kiddin' that's no jive
The boiler it won't do so well
The neighbors say, "It smokes like H--l"!!

Sound off,,SOUND OFF,,
1 2 3 4 1 2....3 4

He He, just a little diddy to help you remember

 

[antknee2]

Hi JMann
The Seton will burn very smoke free if you have a load that keeps the boiler full throttle for a couple hours and your not afraid to fill the firebox to the level of the bottom of the loading door . Very easy if have a place for all the energy they produce . Do me a favor get a real good draft gauge and stack thermometer , other wise it's hard to set up the system and understand were your energy is going . Best of luck with your Seton
Anthony

Thanks for the tip. Can you ballpark what a good draft gauge and stack thermometer would cost?

My favorite and only draft gauge is about $190 worth every penny if your in the trade or have a Seton boiler / any wood fired appliance .
http://www.tequipment.net/BacharachDraftMZF13-7021.html
Anthony

 

[pybyr]

I have the Bacharach gauge that Anthony D recommends, and indeed the full accompanying Bacharach "wet kit" with stack temp thermometer and CO2 meter - 'cause I ran across a steal of a (legitimate) deal on one and realized it'd pay for itself in less than two seasons in letting me do my own oil burner service - plus I am a geek for buying quality tools that will be useful and save money over the long run.

But- in the less pricey realm, get a semi decent non-digital meat thermometer to stick in your flue pipe, and this $12 surplus gauge, and you will get a lot of almost-as-useful information on stack draft and temperature for a WHOLE lot less money

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008082823120378&item=21-1623&catname;=

 

[antknee2]

I have the Bacharach gauge that Anthony D recommends, and indeed the full accompanying Bacharach "wet kit" with stack temp thermometer and CO2 meter - 'cause I ran across a steal of a (legitimate) deal on one and realized it'd pay for itself in less than two seasons in letting me do my own oil burner service - plus I am a geek for buying quality tools that will be useful and save money over the long run.

But- in the less pricey realm, get a semi decent non-digital meat thermometer to stick in your flue pipe, and this $12 surplus gauge, and you will get a lot of almost-as-useful information on stack draft and temperature for a WHOLE lot less money

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008082823120378&item=21-1623&catname;=

Very cool gauge .
Anthony

 

[trailhound68]

I have the Seton W-90 and it runs 24/7. I have a good heat demand for it, maybe too good at times. This unit does smoke when it has been filled. It takes quite some time for it to go clear, but once it does, it remains that way until more wood is added. My routine is to fill the boiler, well above the bottom of the door, when I wake, when I return from work and as late as possible at night. Each loading over a big bed of coals causes a lot of smoke for some time.
I am in a residential area also, fortunately prevailing wind is in my favor, but not always. The way to reduce the smoke is add logs at many equal intervals, consistantly.

You will certainly need to guage the draft and temp from day one. My stack is 6" with 2 90's and a tee and 24' high. It makes too much draft. This will be season #2, with more learning to do.
The unit will burn clean most of the time if you get it dialed in. The reason I bought the unit is because it is not an OWB.

 

[leaddog]

I have the Bacharach gauge that Anthony D recommends, and indeed the full accompanying Bacharach "wet kit" with stack temp thermometer and CO2 meter - 'cause I ran across a steal of a (legitimate) deal on one and realized it'd pay for itself in less than two seasons in letting me do my own oil burner service - plus I am a geek for buying quality tools that will be useful and save money over the long run.

But- in the less pricey realm, get a semi decent non-digital meat thermometer to stick in your flue pipe, and this $12 surplus gauge, and you will get a lot of almost-as-useful information on stack draft and temperature for a WHOLE lot less money

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008082823120378&item=21-1623&catname;=

Very cool gauge .

Anthony

I have one of those gauges that I tried to sell on my yard sales and never did. It's new in the box. Now how do I use it to check my draft?????????????????
leaddog

 

[chrisfallis]

I think a fast, small fire to get started will greatly reduce any start-up smoke. With my Tarm, on start-up I leave cracked open both the firebox door and the gasification chamber door, bypass damper open. Small kindling to start, then add a small amount of a little larger material, shut the doors, and almost immediately flames are blasting through the nozzle and up a hot chimney. It works well. On the other hand, 5-6 minutes of smoke is no more than happens on start-up with a regular wood stove.

My Tarm was installed in the middle of town and the only time I had smoke problems was during the idle times, especially in spring and fall. The period from a cold start to gasification was literally just a few minutes, and I would run outside to see the stream of smoke almost disappear from the end of the stack. Part of the help I had was the fact that the chimney came out of of the top of a 2 1/2 story house. I'm looking to install another gasser here in town as soon as finances permit. I think anyone can burn cleanly with the proper technology and a bit of experience.

 

[AndrewChurchill]

Brownian,

Why are wood burning appliances prohibited in garages?

I'm putting a pellet stove in my garage. I asked my plumber, who is a licensed master plumber, if there were any restrictions and his response was any heating appliance, be it oil, propane, or wood, must be off the floor by 18".

Beyond that there weren't any code violations.

PS: I'm in Vermont.