VARM 650 or Tarm (Froling) or Wood Master flex fuel 60

[NE Poultry Supply]

I need about 175k-200k btu.
I think price wise Varm 650, Froling 40/50 and WM FlexFuel 60 are similar. Just the stove they cost between 10 and 12k. Would any work better without storage? The price they put on storage and the minimum storage requirements varies widely. Varm have the Propane tanks they retrofitted with connections. Seems the best price for storage but not sure what more needs to be done to them besides insulation. Is there somewhere in Maine or New Hampshire that can provide them?

I would self install with out hesitation if it was not for the storage, it seems very complicated. I will do some reading up on it.

Could anyone point me towards a thread that may help. I think I need to understand better the pressure tank, the thermo-controled pumps and relief valves that seem to be needed. Is there a phase 1 simple way to get started and then improve it over time?

 

[velvetfoot]

I kinda think I remember that the FlexFuel is an open, not closed, system, if that's an issue.
I always thought that Froling was the tops in everything, but I could be wrong.
There are threads in yellow at the top of the forum that have background info that is helpful.
If you buy tanks with the required fittings already welded on, I would think the most complicated thing would be getting them into the basement, .
Everybody really likes storage.

 

[maple1]

I found used propane tanks at a big scrapyard in Moncton NB, and took them to a welder who welded fittings on where I wanted them. I was sweating on what to do about storage until I got pointed to those.

I think the Varm needs storage, not sure about the others. And I think the Woodmaster is the only one of the three that I have read of someone having issues with. Frolings are very highly regarded.

 

[NE Poultry Supply]

FlexFuel is an open, not closed, system

This would mean water tests and treatments... not so good.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

In my opinion, thermal storage makes everything less complicated.
Maybe a little bit more money upfront, but operation of the wood boiler will be much more efficient.

http://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/coll_attach_file/idronics_17_na.pdf

 

[NE Poultry Supply]

In my opinion, thermal storage makes everything less complicated.
Maybe a little bit more money upfront, but operation of the wood boiler will be much more efficient.

http://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/coll_attach_file/idronics_17_na.pdf

View attachment 161034

Thank you!

Is there and emergency gravity loop? I don't see it. Is that recommended?

The Expansion tank? I think this is a bladder tank but is there other ways?

 

[Chris Hoskin]

just FYI, the Fröling FHG requires thermal storage. Also, the drawings may look complicated at first glance, but including thermal storage really doesn't have to be very complicated.

 

[maple1]

Thank you!

Is there and emergency gravity loop? I don't see it. Is that recommended?

The Expansion tank? I think this is a bladder tank but is there other ways?

On expansion - I used a 100 gallon LP tank for that here. (No bladder). After 3 years, I think I have seen some shortcomings with a bit of air working into my system periodically - it is sitting on the floor right beside storage, not the best place for it. I will be swapping it for a bladder tank before this heating season starts - but if I had a high place I could put it, I would keep using the LP tank. The upstairs master bedroom is about the only high place I can come up with to put it - and no way that solution will fly with my other half.

 

[NE Poultry Supply]

On expansion - I used a 100 gallon LP tank for that here. (No bladder). After 3 years, I think I have seen some shortcomings with a bit of air working into my system periodically - it is sitting on the floor right beside storage, not the best place for it. I will be swapping it for a bladder tank before this heating season starts - but if I had a high place I could put it, I would keep using the LP tank. The upstairs master bedroom is about the only high place I can come up with to put it - and no way that solution will fly with my other half.

Hi Maple1,
How does it work any different form just plain water storage? Do you put a bleader valve in the top of it and just let air sit in the top of it?

 

[maple1]

Not sure I completely understand your question. But - I started with an empty 100 gallon tank. To the top of it, I added a pressure guage & schrader valve (for adding air if needed). Also T'd in a ball valve to atmosphere for bleeding purposes if needed. Plumbed the bottom of it into my system, T'd in just upstream of the system circulator. Between that T and the expansion tank is another T with a drain on it for draining purposes if needed - and you would also put a ball valve in there too so you can isolate the expansion from the system. Before you heat the system, start with an empty expansion tank, and valved off from the system. Pressurize it with air to about 2psi less than the system pressure. In my case that was about 8psi. At the same time you pressurize the system with water, in my case 10 psi. Then once that is done & stable, and before you start heating the system, you open the ball valve between the system & expansion tank. And heat away.

Not much different than if using a bladder tank - just that with a bladder tank the air is separated from the water by a bladder.

 

[Karl_northwind]

keep in mind you can pipe from the top of your air scoop (if you have one) to the top of your expansion tank to put the removed air back into the expansion tank. air never leaves the system now.

I've never done it but it works in the books!

of course the details will be the sticky thing, but I'm sure you'll figure it out.
cheaper than many new bladder expansion tanks.
k

 

[NE Poultry Supply]

keep in mind you can pipe from the top of your air scoop (if you have one) to the top of your expansion tank to put the removed air back into the expansion tank. air never leaves the system now.

I've never done it but it works in the books!

of course the details will be the sticky thing, but I'm sure you'll figure it out.
cheaper than many new bladder expansion tanks.
k

keen idea thanks.