VC Defiant Encore help

[baist111]

I recently moved into a house with a VC Defiant Encore wood stove, and don't know anything about it. We went to the local stove shop and they hadn't seen a model like this before. We were told by many people that it is supposed to have legs and shouldn't use it, but doing various searches online we can't find any pictures of this model similar to ours. Does anyone know anything about this particular model, or if it's supposed to have legs?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Heat Miser]

I haven't seen that particular model, however it looks very similar to my cast iron black Defiant. Behind the grate on the bottom should be an ashpan, no? My Defiant had an ashpan behind a solid cast iron swing out door. The stove does need to have legs on it though to operate if I recall from the install instructions. The bottom of the stove gets very hot during operation and should not be placed directly on the hearth. In fact, some installations may even require a bottom heat shield be installed as well.

 

[fossil]

Don't know whether or not this is your model:


http://www.stovepartsplus.com/Merchant5/PDFFILES/VC-PDFS/VC-DEF-ENC-PDF/VC-DEF-ENC-2140.pdf


Item #15 (I assume 4 ea.)

If that describes your stove, then don't burn in it until you get it up on the legs it's supposed to have under it. Rick

 

[baist111]

Yes, behind the swing out door on the bottom is the ashpan that swings out... also below the ash pan is another flat metal peice that covers the entire bottom. Would that be the heat sheild? If that is a heat shield, how much clearance do you need between that and the floor? It's only about 1/2 inch off the ground, that doesn't seem like enough right?

 

[fossil]

You need the legs that the manufacturer provided for the stove. Rick

 

[Heat Miser]

Yes, behind the swing out door on the bottom is the ashpan that swings out... also below the ash pan is another flat metal peice that covers the entire bottom. Would that be the heat sheild? If that is a heat shield, how much clearance do you need between that and the floor? It's only about 1/2 inch off the ground, that doesn't seem like enough right?

There is another heat shield that attaches to the bottom plate as well. That stove needs legs on it to run safely and you may need a heat shield as well depending on how your hearth is constructed.

You should also check to see if the stove is a catalytic model (probably is). If so, you may also need to inspect and/or replace the catalytic element.

However your first task is to have it installed properly so it is safe to operate. That means getting legs and perhaps a heat shield installed.

 

[fossil]

Looks like a rear exit, which means some work (possibly some significant work) will need to be done to the flue arrangement when you get that stove up off the floor where it belongs. I'm wondering whether maybe this stove replaced an older, differently configured appliance, and the legs were removed from this one to facilitate hooking up to the existing flue. In any case, whoever took the legs off this stove and set it smack down on the floor made a serious error in judgment. Rick

EDIT: Can't tell for sure from the pic, but it looks to me as though some extension of the hearth is in order, as well.

 

[BrotherBart]

Looks like it vents straight out the back and that is probably the reason they took the legs off. To match up with the wall thimble. Once it is back up on legs you have a new problem. You can't vent it with the horizontal pipe section angled down. At the least it need to angled up slightly to the wall thimble connected to the chimney.

And it is a cat stove. The bypass lever is visible on the left side of the stove facing it.

 

[Heat Miser]

I'm wondering whether maybe this stove replaced an older, differently configured appliance, and the legs were removed from this one to facilitate hooking up to the existing flue. In any case, whoever took the legs off this stove and set it smack down on the floor made a serious error in judgment. Rick

I saw that too. Looks like they had a smaller stove there and replaced it with the Defiant. Instead of moving the flue upwards, they just lowered the stove to meet it by taking off the legs. I don't think this installation is safe to run and I wouldn't do it until it is fixed.

 

[BrotherBart]

Looks like me and fossil were typing at the same time.

 

[fossil]

Looks like me and fossil were typing at the same time.

I try to take the even minutes and leave everything odd to you, BB. ;-P Rick

 

[baist111]

Thanks for all of your replies.
I think we'll purchase a smaller stove that fits the space there rather than trying to modify the space to fit the stove.
It just makes me wonder why they would do something like remove the legs on a woodstove, it's so dangerous, and it's amazing that the house isn't already burnt down.

 

[fossil]

It is dangerous, but the fact that the house hasn't burned down (yet) may not be too amazing. Perhaps the stove hasn't seen a lot of use, perhaps the floor protection is pretty darned good at insulating the heat from the nearest combustibles, and perhaps...just perhaps...our standards for fire safety inside the home are very conservative. In any case, I think you're making the right move, and I wish you the best of luck in your search for a replacement stove. My gut feeling is that you're likely to come face to face with the reality that some major modifications will need to be done to your flue arrangement. Keep us posted! Rick

EDIT: Just a thought as you launch off in pursuit of a new solution...is your home configured such that a stovepipe could go straight up from the appliance, in front of the masonry structure, and all the way up and out? Some really nice installations are done that way. Then the old flue is simply sealed up and abandoned. The possibilities are nearly limitless. Have fun!

 

[begreen]

I may be wrong, but I think I've seen this stove before. It looks like an early Encore hearth model. I can't find any current docs to refer to, but the stove looks familiar. Craig may remember selling it at some time.

baist111, PM the webmaster and ask him to take a look.

 

[webbie]

I think it is a regular Encore, but they sold a kit called a "plinth", which may have taken a inch or two off of it.

So it's just an Encore as far as parts, etc.
Probably has an extra heat shield built in the plinth. The Encore needs a heavy duty hearth even stock (with legs)

 

[webbie]

Anyway, should be safe and fine as-is - assuming the hearth is built decently. What is the hearth? Is it brick on concrete or one layer of brick on wood?

 

[fossil]

Does this stove look as though it's got the plinth kit installed under it? I'm familiar with the term plinth...an element at the base of a column, for example, but I'm not familiar with these stoves. My admittedly inexperienced eye sees no plinth here. Seems like it oughta look like a pedestal that extends out beyond the perimeter of the stove bottom. Rick

 

[webbie]

Yeah, that's what it looks like......the plinth kit.

Maybe not an accurate name, but that is what VC called it. Maybe had to do with "higher value" name.....marketing speak. Engineers call a spade a spade....marketers call is a "modern curved sexually shaped work saving implement"

 

[fossil]

:lol: Yeah, engineers are from Mars, marketers are from Pluto. The stove in this pic just looks to my untrained eye that there's nothing there beneath the ash pan door. Maybe they got the "Mini-Plinth", or perhaps the "Stealth Plinth". Dunno. Interesting, makes me uneasy the way it's just sitting there flat on the floor. Rick

 

[begreen]

Thanks Craig, I knew I had seen that model in a store or someplace. It looked like a stock option.

 

[webbie]

Keep in mind that even the Encore with legs has the bottom of the stove barely over the hearth (due to ash pan, etc.) - also, the actual fire burns on a grate far above the bottom of the stove.

Still, this installation is suspect in other ways - sure does not look like 16-18" in front of those front doors. Also, the construction of the hearth is important. Even the stock Encore required (then) something like "masonry over bare earth"......pretty ridiculous, but true! I always thought that VC should have included the heat shields because of that - but the marketing dept (price) won that debate too.

IN short, nothing seems wrong with the stove itself, but the hearth construction and size should be checked. Someone here might even dig up the manual online for the old encore and see if the plinth is addressed.

 

[begreen]

I spent a while last night trying to find manual info on the plinth. So far no success. At this point I'm not even sure it's a cat model. Both the cat and nc appear to have the bypass lever on the upper left of the stove. But perhaps I'm missing something.