VC Defiant Encore... what should I be aware of?

[homebrewz]

Hello. Tonight, I am going to look at a VC Definat Encore that showed up in my local paper. Is there anything that I should be aware of with these units? I know the basics of what to look for in any stove (metal fatigue, loose fitting doors & bolts, etc), but I understand there was a problem with quality at some point in the VC history. The guy says the stove is about 12-13 years old and he replaces the Cat about every 3 or 4 years.

I thought this might be a good unit, but most of the ratings on this site say no way!

Any input?

Thanks..

 

[elkimmeg]

Lets be fair for the novice, cat stoves are not throw the wood in and forget them. Patience, dry wood, the correct size flue, good draft, and these are good stoves. Also consider if a stove manufacturer makes 1000 models of a stove and VC makes 50,000 what is the chance VC would recieve more complaints? Also consider when buying a used stove who still supplies parts? VC does for your potential stove. Face it Cat stoves are not for all, Get them running right learn how to opperate them , you just got clean cheap EPA brand name stove. YES if you followed any cat discussions here, they need maintance about 5 to 10 minutes at the start of the season and I also clean it in mid season. Off OEM combustors are about 50% less and so far opperate equal or better.

Ask him his burning habits wood amount? Ask him what he has replaced besides the combustor? Gaskets metal plates ect. I believe it was durnig the sametime as your stove is when VC was bought out by Majestic. I know there were higher incidents of quality control issues in 95 96 97 and 98
More so when CFM bought out Majestic in 1996 and the next years or two. Again that was not every stove made. Again you might be buying tried and proven. Hopefully the seller is honest.. Ask questions and report back here so others can review them and offer advice

 

[homebrewz]

Thanks for the info! Those are some good questions to ask.

I have a 6" cut & drop (stainless and insulated flex pipe) in an existing masonary chimney. The VC accepts an 8" pipe. Will this cause any problems? If I bought the stove, I was planning to just use the appropriate reducer to hook it up to my chimney.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

In my opinion, its not ok to reduce flues. In a fireplace chimney, you dont have to realy worry about overheating the pipe, but you do have to worry about poor draft. The only way i can think to describe it as backpressure. You have more heat wanting to escape then the 6" pipe will allow. So they tend to spill easy, and smoke during windy conditions. Similar to the effect of oversizing chimneys. It kind of goes both ways.

 

[elkimmeg]

VC encore was spected to opperate witha 6" flue they even make a optional 6" flue collar The one disclaimer is running the stove with6" flue it can not be run in the open firescreen door open mode. If looking for heat only that is a non issue. As an inspector I cannot tell or advise you to run it in an open door mode with the 6" flue. Personally, I too have purchased a used Encore I will be installing replacing my 3 year old Resolute Acclaim. I will be replacing all the gaskets and fine tuning it to as good as new opperational condition. I can help you and advise you. two other tricks when viewing the stove is to get a bear light socket and place the bear bulb in the stove and shut all lights off. Walk around that stove and look for light leaks at seams or connection points. Then to check for gasket c condition and seal ability use a dollar bill close the door and pull on it if you can pull it with little ristance then the gaskets need replacing but you should try multi positions The top griddle gasket is recomended replacement time is 3/4 years. If it seems like a good stove leave a small deposit. Then report your finding or information and questions here. We have a few regular posters here that are VC dealers. Good luck

You are wise to be shopping now A month and a half from now and if a hurricane hits or any other disruption of the oil flow no matter what you pay increase demand will mean you pay more later especially if you get a good one.

 

[homebrewz]

The stove I have now accepts both 6" and 8" pipe. It seems to work fine with the 6" pipe. However, it is old and unefficient. I am simply looking to upgrade.

I wasn't aware of the open fireplace mode. Its not really an issue. I'm just interested in the heat. This is a big drafty farmhouse.

I have a pellet stove in the kitchen so I'm used to regular maintenance and cleaning.

I'll try those tests. Thanks again.

 

[elkimmeg]

The model cat encore you are looking at, run properly, runs very clean, even measured againt today's standards, good luck
BTW what are they asking? what collor?

 

[homebrewz]

Its a VC Defiant Encore, Model# 0028. Color: Sand

and.. it was in pretty good shape, and I had the truck there, so I bought it. I figure that if it doesn't suit my needs, next winter it would make someone else very happy. We even got it into the house already.. what a chore!

The gaskets seemed good, except for the door gasket on the top. Thats shot. Also, on the inside of the stove when the front doors are open and you look straight into it, there are two metal plates bolted to the back wall of the fire box. The upper central part of the lower plate appears to have undergone some sort of metal fatigue. Its sort of rust colored and a 1 to 2 inch section has crumbled away. The rest is very solid. He used it like this and I think that if it is an issue, it can just be replaced.

What sold me is that he was very knowledgeable about the stove and maintained it well. He also seemed sorry to see it go..but, he decided to go with coal next year (said he lost his source of free firewood). From what he told me, It sounded like the original owner didn't know much about the stove and probably over fired it a few times. That may be the source of the metal fatigue on that one plate.

It was $350. I just need to call VC and get a copy of the manual.

Thanks for the input!

 

[elkimmeg]

Here is the story I believe the best stoves were were cast and essembled with the long time very skilled employees before the first take over by Majestic in 1992. When Majestic took over may of the original employees either quit or retired. Knowing this,, I think the best crafted VC stoves were between mid 80' to early 90's. The Encore 0028 manufactureing run occured between 1986- 1990. Many had manufacturing dates stamped on the inside back plate. Another way to determine age is from the rear lable If it is has been tested to Oregon Standards it was manufactured between 1986 to possibly 1988 after 1988 they were EPA certified and not needing Oregon approvals. The Oregon testing specs, were the prelimary to the Epa standards. For all practical purposes they are the same.

You do not have to order the manual one can download a copy from the VC s web site. I believe the door gaskets are 5/16" which can be bought cheap at Home Depot. Word of caution, do not run that stove with the current condition of that plate, especially if part of it has eroaded away. There are still retailers that sell parts for your stove http://www.discountstove.com

Personally $350 there are plenty on the forum would have jumped at that price including me. Even if you put $150 into it plate gaskets and it is in good shape and sound A month and half from now, a semi recondition Encore on Ebay will sell for double what you have into. it I paid $500 for mine 1999 used only 2 seasons I think I got a steal and all refactory seams are good as is the cat combustor and the ceramic is supurb with no chips. But I will gasket everything including the doors the glass inserts the girdle
the plate parts around the combustor ant the flue collar gaskets every gasket will be replaced. All missing knobs and handles I have the parts here it will be as good as new

Congrats I think you made out good deal

 

[homebrewz]

Thanks. I agree. I felt it was a good deal, but all I was looking for was a decent, efficient, and safe stove. I had set aside more, so now I can use that $ to fix it up.

The serial # is 22334 and it says that model was safety tested on 3/31/86, 4/1-3/86, and 4/14-15/86. There is also an EPA notice and underneath EPA it says something like "not approved for sale after June 30, 1992".

Is there anything else I should replace besides the gaskets and that lower interior metal plate? He also said he cleaned the Cat every yeary with.. I believe it was vinegar. Does that sound right? I smelled it when I opened the stove.. not strong, but it was there. They also used baking soda to get rid of the "woodsmoke smell" in the fire box every summer.

 

[homebrewz]

I checked the VC website for a manual, but I could not find one archived for this model. I wrote the company for one.

Also, all the photos I've seen of similar stoves have two andirons in the front by the glass windows. They did not come with the stove. Did they not have them in earlier models?

 

[elkimmeg]

The Andirons are criticle to yop loading they guard and protect the glass when top loading I think your model they are the bolt in kind here is a few helpfull links plus have you checked manuals when their complete line pre EPA is listed for what it is worth I have the 0091 model manual in PDF stored on my computer you will see they are simmilar even the rear plate can be used in either model I can print it and mail it to you.

here are some links to help you

(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2006/2003063_Fireback_5925.pdf)


(broken link removed to http://www.discountstove.com/0028encore.png)

BTw yours is the newer of the product line the testing date is when they first established the line th It was tested to EPA first standards Phase I 1992 Phase II standards did not change all that much probabably not with Cat stoves That's what the sell by 1992 means. You still have an EPA compliant stove

 

[homebrewz]

Thanks, but I already wrote the company for a manual. They have a request form on the website.

I'll ask the previous owner if he forgot to include the andirons, otherwise I'll order a pair when I do the repair kit.