VC Encore 2550. Do I Keep?

[RichL35]

I am just now installing a hearth and chimney in my house for a Encore 2550 that I have rebuilt over the last 2 months. This is my first wood stove and I am pretty excited about getting everything fired up and running but I am starting to have some doubts about my stove selection.
The stove was completely dissassembled and all cast parts were sandblasted to bare metal. I had the griddle top re-plated (nickel) and replaced all the external control handles and glass so that the stove asthetically looks brand new. I replaced the entire refractory assy, installed a new combuster, installed a new primary air control thermostat and the secondary control thermostat so that the stove will function as new as possible. The entire stove had all new VC gaskets installed everywhere and was assembled using Rutland stove cement when i put all the castings back together. The stove was painted with Stove Brite stove paint (hunter Green) and looks great. All of the castings were in great shape, no warping, no cracks anywhere. The stove sealed up tight and could find no leaks (post rebuild) either with a light or the smoke test. With all the experiance I could muster by reading everything I could possibly find on the internet and this forum, this stove should be ready to heat my home. I rebuilt it like it was a 55 Chevy Belair, not a wood stove.
My problem is that I haven't exactly been reading blazing reviews of this stove. I have already experianced VC and I feel bad for the abuse I put my local dealer through trying to get parts now. I keep hearing everyone say it is a beautiful stove for occasional use but not really suited to heat a home. I am wondering if I should sell this in rebuilt condition an pick up something else or am I over reacting to a few unhappy people?


Encore 2550 owners..... I need to hear from you. Do I install this stove or do I start looking for a Jotul F400?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[begreen]

I don't own this stove, but think it is a respectable heater. The Encore cats have a good reputation. As long as it's on a good flue system it should give you good service. You've put a lot of time, energy and expense into this stove. Enjoy the fruits of your labor. Light her up and savor the warmth. I sure would. Oh, don't forget to post some pictures of this beauty!

 

[BandSawyer]

I have one and I have heated with it for 12 seasons. It heats the house ok but I have complaints.

The first is access to the combuster to clean it out. The firehood on the fireback has warped. It always came out hard but last summer it would not come at all. I had to take a Dremel tool and cutoff wheel and alter things to get it out.

The second issue to me is the most important. I cannot get an overnight burn. I have good seasoned wood usually beech and black birch but the stove will not last until morning. In the morning the stove may still have some warmth but there are no coals to rekindle a fire.

I live in NH and the stove is capable of heating my 1700 sq ft Cape style house. When the outdoor temperature goes below 5 I have to burn it quite hot but it still is my only source of heat.

The wife and I have been talking about moving this stove to the new workshop at the end of the season and getting a new Woodstock Fireview.

I hope this helps you a bit.

 

[semipro]

I'd use it. I've run an Encore Cat and my current Jotul. Both have their good and bad points. I thought the Encore we burned was an excellent stove though we only used it for one season in a rental house.

If you were to sell it I wish I was near enough to buy it. Sounds like a beauty.

 

[redhat]

Use it, it's a good stove. For my needs there is none better. I'm on the first year with my 2550, used an 0028 Defiant Encore (the 2550's older brother) for many years before that. I've run my 2550 24/7 since mid October and so far it has performed wonderfully, keeping the house nice and toasty through a "balmy" central New York winter.

 

[Nonprophet]

Rich,

I'm kind of in a similar boat in that we just purchased a used Defiant Encore 2550. We only paid $100 for it, and it's working well as is, so all things considered we can't complain--even if it only lasts for a season or two.

In another thread I complained about our Encore not putting out as much heat as our older steel "smoke dragon," but I've gotten more used to it now and I'm able to get it up to 650 or even 750 if I need to, and it's not running away from me, so I'm pretty content with it. It heats up slower than our older steel stove, but we do get an 7-8 hour burn out of it, we always have a nice hot bed of coals in the morning to easily re-kindle the fire, and on those occasions when we let it go out completely our Encore lights easier than any other wood stove we've ever used. I love the ash door and top-loading feature, and ours is a gorgeous midnight blue enamel model that's just stunning to look at!

While I'm not new to wood stoves I am definitely new to VC cat stoves, so take my comments below accordingly as I'm certainly no expert!!

I too read the many of the not-so-favorable reviews about the Encore and Acclaim models, and I'm still not sure if I'd spend $5-600 to rebuild our Encore if it comes to that. Still, it seems to me that many of the complaints about these VC stoves needs to be put into perspective a little.

I know that the lower fireback on ours is cracked and warped and one of our andirons is broken, so I ordered both of those from Black Swan ($90 and $17). I was told that the catalyzer in ours is only a year or two old and hasn't had much use--it's working right now so I'm inclined to let it be.

Lots of complaints about the need to replace warped firebox pieces every 3-5 years, but at least the parts CAN be replaced, as opposed to a steel box stove that once cracked is probably best taken to the landfill as I understand that properly repairing a cracked steel stove is very difficult if not imposible. Also, there are more than a few people here who burn their Encore 24/7 and have NEVER replaced a warped/cracked firebox part, so there's something to be said for "user error" I guess.

There are a fair number of complaints about the cost of replacement catalyzers, but there are aftermarket ones available for the Encores for about $140--many other CAT stoves have cats that cost $300-$400 and up! Also, while the non-cats don't need to buy catalyzers, I've seen a fair number of posts here from people who've had to fork out $500 or $600 and more to replace the secondary burn units in their non-cats stoves after just a few years of regular use, so maybe $140 every 3-5 years isn't such a bad thing.......

Anyway, if I were you I'd use that sucker for a good season and see how you like it--you can always sell it next fall at the peak of stove-buying season and get a pretty penny for it should you decide to get something else. Lastly, if I were a perspective buyer, I'd probably want to know the rebuilt one had been used successfully and had no problems--I'd be reluctant to buy a shiny newly reconditioned one that hadn't been tested unless it was being sold by a reputable shop or rebuilder who really knew what they were doing.

NP

 

[RichL35]

Thanks to everyone for their input. There is no better advice than the advice of the people who run these stoves everyday.

I paid $250 for the stove off craigslist and it came with the refractory assy and the combustor. The woman who I bought it from received the stove from a family member who moved and had no place for it in his new home. He told her that it would need a combustor so she bought one and tried to install it. In the process of trying to install she poked a hole in the front of the refractory assy. Off to the VC dealer for a refractory assy she went. When she finally received the assy she couldn't figure out how to get the new one in so she called her local VC dealer who came down and wrongly informed her that the entire stove had to be dissasembled to install it. At this point she gave up and listed it on Craigslist.
I moved the stove into the shop and quickly figured out how to get the refractory assy in. I installed all new door gaskets, Griddle gasket, ash door gasket, inner side gaskets, etc, etc, etc.... stove polished the stove and showed my wife. Thats when those fateful words were uttered through her lips.

"It would look better in the room if it was a dark green like the one in the wood stove store. Black is so dingy. And why does the glass look dirty? You want to put this in the house?"

That was all it took to get me started. Within two hours the stove was in pieces and the sand blaster was fired up. Two months later, hours and hours of research, and about $500 more dollars in parts (glass, gaskets, cement , controls, thermostats, nickel plating, ohh... and new heatshields) the stove finally sits in my living room. Now she loves it but isn't sure is she wants to actually use it because..... "It will make it look all dirty." She actually suggested, and I quote, " Maybe we should just get some candles, light them, and put them inside. That way it will look like the stove is lit." I wish I was kidding!

Well that is the story of the rebuild. The chimney is installed and I am in the process of building the slate stone hearth. I am probably a couple days away from the insurance inspection so that I can fire her up. I think I will take the general advice and put this stove to good use.

I do have a couple of questions for the experianced wood burners. I know that I have to break the stove in with a few fires of increasing intensity. I am also confident that I did everything I could to verify that this stove is sealed up airtight but.... How do I start the first fire in this stove safely? How much wood, and what kind, do I put in the stove for the first fire? How do i make sure that If I didn't seal it up as good as I think I did, that it doesn't run away on me dangerously? On my break in fires do I even want to consider engaging the combuster?

Thanks again for the replies. It was the info on sites like this one that got me this far.

Rich

 

[cybex]

Hi Rich- I too have the 2550 just replaced with a 1450(posted- 1450 - no control) because off time limitations-working 7 days a week. I worked the last stove hard to keep warm (for 4 years)when I disconnected the baseboard heating for remodeling. On very cold days(Jan 04?) I would run both stoves(Intrepid in the living room). Like BandSawyer, I took had to rework the hood and fireback. This will be the third Cat and a total rebuild, but its worth it. I have the 046. I should have gotten the 066! Is L35 the Kubota you have?

Wes

 

[RichL35]

Wes,
Love the 066 but after a couple hours of running it takes awhile to get the feeling back in my hands. As far as the L35..... No I don't own a Kubota. L is for my last name and 35 was my number when I played hockey.

Rich

 

[cybex]

Like you, I then dropped down to a smaller saw(346XP or MS250). I tried to email you thru the member list last night, but I guess you didn't receive it. I'm new to this forum, which has very good for info. I drive from town to town, state to state, so the cell phone works for me. I type very slooow, one finger at a time.

 

[kwburn]

We run a Defiant Encore and an Intrepid II - both catalytic. I bought the DE used two years ago and I'm pretty sure its an early 90's model (2550?).
We love both stoves but we really love the Defiant. So much so that we have plans of switching out our Intprepid by next winter with another Defiant Encore. The Intrepid is great, but our biggest complaint now that we really burn, or like to try to burn, 24/7 is the Intrepid is often stone cold in the morning making getting it going again almost from scratch. The end result is we often don't have time to restart it in the morning (on a work day) and that side of the house stays cold. The Defiant Encore on the other hand is normally 300-400 degrees on the griddle in the morning and chock full of orange coals and ready to rock again. It's also a bit more forgiving when it comes to engaging/disengaging temps,etc.

Top loading and thermostat control is just the greatest. I don't think I can go back to anything else again. We don't even open the front doors on either of them at all anymore except to clean the glass every couple weeks. We build all our fires right from the top load door and just add wood through the top as needed. To clean the ashes, as of this year, I don't even empty the ash trays anymore. I just shovel it out from above into a metal ash can. It's just not worth cleaning up the mess that inevitably gets on the floor using the pans. Doing all of this just makes for an extremely safe and clean burning experience.

When you burn for the first time, I'll give you a warning though which hopefully you won't need to deal with...
The Defiant Encore is very fussy when it comes to gasket seals. The slightest gaps will drive you nuts as the stove will feel like it runs away from you temp wise. I had redone all the gaskets before burning the first time but still had to do considerable trouble shooting to get things right. Of note was the ash pan gasket below which is very hard to get a good seal (another reason i just don't use the ash pan anymore). Mine had to really be cranked down tight to seal well on the right side. The other thing was the gasket on the damper that closes when you engage the combustor. I hadn't done that at all but needed to in order to get a controllable burn. Since then though it has been smooth sailing.

I had my first issue with it last night when it started smoking through the top load door as soon as I would engage. My only thought is the combustor is clogged. The stove is cooling off today and I will inspect tonight. Hopefully the hood isn't warped!

 

[cybex]

Kwburn- you got spoiled with the big stove like I did. The Intrepid is now the 'romance stove' with the screens on(or a cold spell that falls on a weekend). I talked to the VC Rep last night in regards to my 1450. He says that the ash pan door is known for leaks. Never had to adjust the 2550. I would get blow by from the griddle when it would back puff.

Wes

 

[downeast]

We love both stoves but we really love the Defiant. So much so that we have plans of switching out our Intprepid by next winter with another Defiant Encore. The Intrepid is great, but our biggest complaint now that we really burn, or like to try to burn, 24/7 is the Intrepid is often stone cold in the morning making getting it going again almost from scratch. The end result is we often don't have time to restart it in the morning (on a work day) and that side of the house stays cold. The Defiant Encore on the other hand is normally 300-400 degrees on the griddle in the morning and chock full of orange coals and ready to rock again. It's also a bit more forgiving when it comes to engaging/disengaging temps,etc.
Top loading and thermostat control is just the greatest. I don't think I can go back to anything else again. We don't even open the front doors on either of them at all anymore except to clean the glass every couple weeks. We build all our fires right from the top load door and just add wood through the top as needed. To clean the ashes, as of this year, I don't even empty the ash trays anymore. I just shovel it out from above into a metal ash can. It's just not worth cleaning up the mess that inevitably gets on the floor using the pans. Doing all of this just makes for an extremely safe and clean burning experience.
When you burn for the first time, I'll give you a warning though which hopefully you won't need to deal with...
The Defiant Encore is very fussy when it comes to gasket seals. The slightest gaps will drive you nuts as the stove will feel like it runs away from you temp wise. I had redone all the gaskets before burning the first time but still had to do considerable trouble shooting to get things right. Of note was the ash pan gasket below which is very hard to get a good seal (another reason i just don't use the ash pan anymore). Mine had to really be cranked down tight to seal well on the right side. The other thing was the gasket on the damper that closes when you engage the combustor. I hadn't done that at all but needed to in order to get a controllable burn. Since then though it has been smooth sailing.
I had my first issue with it last night when it started smoking through the top load door as soon as I would engage. My only thought is the combustor is clogged. The stove is cooling off today and I will inspect tonight. Hopefully the hood isn't warped!

Right about everything. Nice ! Our 2001 Encore WHEN BURNING AS DESIGNED is easily the finest stove made. It unfortunately is fussy about air leaks. Gasket integrity is vital on ALL external openings and internal such as the damper and flue outlet. Be sure that you test all around the openings with the ( now Craig devalued )dollar bill test . If you replace gaskets be sure to use ONLY high density gaskets , not the ones normally sold. Demand only high density gaskets for any replacement. The front door is never used on our Encore; top-loading is better than sliced bread for burning 24/7.
I once installed an Intrepid in an outbuilding "office" when my wife was finishing her MBA. It is a terrible heater: small, not able to hold any kind of burn, and the tiny 12" logs were a pain. One of the real Vermont Castings' disappointments.
The Encore and Defiant are b_____ches to rebuild, and even then never seem to work right until ALL leaks are closed.
For example here burning close to 100% wood heat ( no real backup ) our Oslo non-cat needs almost 2X the wood and loads for heating a similar space compared with the Encore.
IF burning a stove for 24/7 heat, not the usual "up from" the thermostat setting of 68 F, it is best to get another stove.
JMNSHO ( from real time experience heating with wood stoves ).

 

[Paxson]

I just chimed in last week about this stove. We've heated our medium sized farmhouse with a 2550 - 24/7 for about 12 years, and an old VC Vigilante for 15 years before that. Just two weeks ago, we replaced the warped throat combuster cover, but the rest of the stove seemed in good shape. Over the years we've replaced gaskets, the catalytic heater, and one cracked window, but never a total rebuild.

We've always really liked the stove. We usually have coals to restart the fire after an 8 hour overnight or workday burn, at least when we are having warm winter weather. (Here in southern Minnesota that means above 0.) When we are below zero and we've had a lot of that this winter, I might get up and throw a few logs into the stove in the middle of the night. However we are burning nice wood; two year old oak, hickory and red elm to get those long burns. I clean the chimney twice a year and and get a very small amount of creosote.

I am new to this site, people seem very knowledgeable, and after reading some of the old threads I told my wife, "Hey, our stove is a junker!"

She said, "Settle down, knucklehead. Are you going to believe something you read or your own experience for all these years?"

So. Taking her advice, I have to say we've been very pleased with the stove.

 

[semipro]

I do have a couple of questions for the experienced wood burners. I know that I have to break the stove in with a few fires of increasing intensity. I am also confident that I did everything I could to verify that this stove is sealed up airtight but.... How do I start the first fire in this stove safely? How much wood, and what kind, do I put in the stove for the first fire? How do i make sure that If I didn't seal it up as good as I think I did, that it doesn't run away on me dangerously? On my break in fires do I even want to consider engaging the combuster?

Thanks again for the replies. It was the info on sites like this one that got me this far.

Rich

My thoughts but I'm no expert. I'm sure others here know better but I don't recall anyone answering this portion of your post.

I'd build a small fire first with nothing larger than medium kindling and then let it cool. You could start with a small amount of wood and add it as needed. I'd repeat with progressively larger fires probably 2 more times before building a full fire with engagement of the catalyst. The catalyst operation will increase the operating temp in that area of the stove. Monitoring the temp with a thermometer is probably a good idea as you shoot for a progressively higher temp each time. I think the main thing to avoid is increasing the temp too quickly.

 

[RichL35]

Thanks for all the posts from the Encore owners. It has certainly made my decision to keep the stove easier and I don't feel like I made such a big mistake by rebuilding this model.

Yes.... This stove was a real pain in the a$$ to rebuild. I had the stove apart for nearly a month and a half during the rebuild and before I gasketed, cemented and assembled for good I dry built the stove once to get my procedure down again. I noted the order of the parts and how they went together and I can't tell you how many times that I questioned the sanity of the VC engineers when they designed this stove. The tounge and groove like joints, the thermostatic cable operated primary air gate, the air chambers within the false sides and fireback, the air dams at the top of the doors, the crappy refractory assy that seems to fail on everyone, etc..... Please tell me that as far as cast stoves go that this is about as complicated as they get. I am a mechanical engineer by trade that designs one-off packaging machines from scratch and this stove was a test at times.

I hope that the stove is as airtight as possible. I have rechecked and concentrated on the problem areas suggested by you guys. After a little more massaging I will tear dollar bills in half before I pull them through a gasketed surface on this stove.

How about some suggestions on fireing up this stove safely the first time.. Especially with the complete teardown and rebuild, the fact that I am a complete beginner and this is my first wood stove, and I need to break it in correctly. I could use some suggestions so I don't get myself in trouble.

Thanks again,
Rich

PS.. I look forward to posting some pictures of this stove and the install.

 

[kwburn]

i checked and mine is actually a 2190 (not a 2550)

my smoking problem last night from the griddle was pretty much a constant small stream of it while the cat was engaged. i'm thinking the cat is clogged and the reason it may have 'intensified' last night as opposed to any other was that it was an unusually mild 40 degrees outside last night and the natural pull of the draft may have been weakened exposing the problem. anyone agree or disagree with that thought process? by the way, i have seen the rare backpuffing occur at times and this was not that.

unfortunately i am buried with work stuff and just can't afford to get into pulling the fireback,etc off until at least next Monday so i am out of service until then. i have a stovecombustors.com cat and looking at the maintenance requirements i will need to boil it in vinegar and distilled water to clean it.