VC Encore rebuild advice needed

[vovo222]

NewB here with booklearnin', but I have a few questions concerning stovebuildin'....

When out looking for a used stove (on a tight budget), I found an old classic catalytic VC Defiant Encore nearby -- just $200 -- of course, it's been well-used, has a broken leg, and it needs a full rebuild. It's in my home and a new seal kit is on hand. I've located the owner's manual and the factory service manual with rebuild instructions (thanks to the forum here). As the stove was disassembled, it showed signs of over-firing or running at limit: there is chipping of the enamel on the top and on the exit port, and the stove has some warping of the lower fireback and bottom grate. The upper fireback still looks straight and I've gotten the bypass damper to work smoothly again after overhauling the linkage rods. The cat is intact and looks OK for another season (it will have to be tried out to be sure), but the refractory assembly is in a dozen pieces and is turning to dust.

My questions are:
1) What's the cheapest source for a new refractory box assy. (mail order)? Does anyone know if the material of construction -- some type of gypsum / silicate insulation board -- can be sourced and a box built on my own with stove cement or hardware (looks easy enough....)?

2) Will using my warped fireback (see photo) contribute to a quick demise of a new refractory box? Can I skip buying a new one? Is it OK to just use stove cement to join the upper and lower fireback? How about plugging the gaps to each side of the port with gasket material ...or would this be an inferior fix that would come loose in the first months of use?

3) Note the car jack in photo!! Is there any reasonable way to replace a broken leg mount (stove bottom casting is fractured at leg attachment bolt hole)? JB Weld...Liquid Steel...some other epoxy? Should I consider drilling up into the firebox and using a longer bolt, or would this lead to structural problems? If no fix, am I stuck with propping the stove on a stack of bricks? ...any other ideas?

 

[elmoleaf]

1. I had the same issue with the refractory chamber for my used Intrepid.
I ended up repairing it by making a putty of perlite and stove cement...about 50/50. I used short wire pieces to internally pin the larger pieces of the chamber together and infilled the missing/damaged areas with the perlite/cement mixture. I too wanted to go the "build one" route. Mineral board...the same stuff used for floor protectors/hearth insulation...should work, but I couldn't find a place to buy it from. Perhaps a drywall company or steel company would have it, since it can also be used to fireproof steel construction?
Whether you build or repair, be sure to check all tolerances before the cement is dried. The original cat. may be difficult to fit back in if you reduce the chamber clearances by using too much cement. The Clear Skies replacement cat is slightly smaller than the OEM one on my Intrepid, so my extra cement to strengthen the chamber didn't matter.

2. I'm not familiar with the construction of that stove, but if the warp bends into the area of the refractory chamber, then you won't be able to fit a new one in there. If you fix the one you have or build a custom chamber to fit the warp, it may be ok if the piece doesn't warp farther into your new chamber. Using gasket alone or with cement sounds reasonable to fill the gap.

3. To fix the leg, you could use Pyro-Putty 2400 by Aremco. It's a high temperature metal repair putty, resistant to heat up to 2000 F. You can use it to join broken casting pieces together or to infill a missing chunk. I used it to successfully repair a broken hinge pin seat two years ago and haven't had any problems with the repair. I don't advise drilling into the firebox. You could always prop a brick or something similar under the stove, or have someone weld up a frame with 4 legs to support the entire stove.

I too have chipped/missing enamel. I've inpainted the missing areas with black hi-temp paint

Good luck.

 

[webbie]

Normally, I would say that you could drill up into the firebox for the new leg mount, but since you indicated the bottom casting was fractured, the new hole may just make the plate actually split....well, not the hole, but the stress put onto it by the leg bolt. Another method would be to use a piece of relatively heavy (1/4") steel and make a plate which mounted to the bottom casting with two or three countersunk stove bolts (drill and tap into bottom) - this plate would also have a tapped hole to received your leg - or, even better yet a welded stud (5/16) which accepted your leg and then a washer and nut. Of course the leg would have to br shortened and/or ground to match heights.

 

[vovo222]

Thanks for all your suggestions! On issues 1) and 2), I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get new parts (refractory box and lower fireback). It's another $200-250, but I want to get this thing up and running. Are there any recommendations for a competitively-priced parts warehouse? Pricing at the local dealer outlet here is more than $50 over the one online source I've found (Black Swan in CT), but I'm wary of variable order fulfillment times and some off the delay stories I've heard about. Where is a good NE US source for Vermont Castings repair parts?

Regarding issue 3) leg mount repair, this seems to be a pretty common problem on the 0028 / 2140 Encore and other early VC stoves. Has anyone posted or seen an example of a bracketed leg fix with photos? (a mirror would be helpful for pics) The stove's bottom casting is NOT fractured through the entire plate; only the protruding eye into which the leg bolt was threaded has broken...about 1/3 of the eye is missing. The leg would have to put up with at least 200 lbs of shear stress as well as the heat. Do you really think that the suggested hi temp epoxy is up for this job?

 

[webbie]

The stove parts business is not competitive since there are generally only a few places where any particular parts exists.
The factory will not give a dealer an extra discount for buying quantities of parts, so right there you have a situation where discounting is almost impossible....in fact, as you mention, the norm is something added to list for the freight and hassle.

So not much I can tell you there.

Just for others reference, the complete rebuilding of an Encore or similar model is not usually a "budget" decision, it is more akin to rebuilding that old Mercedes. Parts are high and it's gonna need a lot of them, plus some elbo grease. More a labor of love than a exercise in value!

As far as the leg, no - I would not suggest epoxy or any other repair like that. If possible (not looking at it) I would through bolt of drill and tap deeper if enough iron exists above current tap - or something of that nature.

 

[irover]

try these
http://trading-post-ct.com/

 

[homebrewz]

From the photos, it looks like the upper fireback is slightly warped as well. If so, you should replace both firebacks while its apart.

With the help of several folks on this forum, I rebuilt a Defiant Encore model 0028 last fall. You can get everything you
need from www.discountstove.com However, I was able to find almost everything I needed from a local stove shop, and
often at the same or better price. I would go that route first and use Discount Stove as a last resort. Shop around and compare.

Plus, if you can find it locally, you won't have to pay shipping which can be expensive when you're talking about mailing pieces of cast iron!

 

[vovo222]

The broken leg has been fixed! For the benefit of the forum, I'd like to share the method used: we found some 2 x 2 square steel tubing (probably from old industrial shelving pillar supports) and engineered a leg using a sliding-pin form tool to map out the complex landscape on the underside of the stove... a magic marker and a hacksaw were all that was needed to cut the leg to fit, and a level helped in getting the height just right. At rest, the stove is now absolutely rock solid -- an immense improvement over the stack of bricks the stove came equipped with!

Somebody here has a good eye! Pehaps you are right about the upper fireback: it looked straight enough to me, but the flash in the photo makes it seem less so. The damper was completely jammed before disassembly and now functions, but binds if the damper hinges are not loose enough. There is significant wear in the center of the damper plate where the end of the control rod has hit it. It's possible that the whole assembly could be slightly bowed outward. Do you think this binding will get worse when the stove is burning and up to temperature?

 

[homebrewz]

In looking at the photo again, its possible that the strong warp in the lower fireback is creating an optical illusion making the top one look warped too,
but it still looks slightly bowed outward.

When I rebuilt mine, I had some trouble getting the damper rod assembly back into the proper position. It was a bit of a puzzle. I had to replace that clip that
holds it to the upper fireback. Perhaps that is what is happening to yours. If you can get it to function, and you don't continually overfire the stove, I honestly
don't know if the 'binding', as you described it, will get worse. Maybe not, but perhaps it may be more prone to a failure since its already been heat stressed.

You have it all apart.. getting the upper fireback won't cost that much extra, unless you have to mail order it
and pay for shipping. You might as well replace it and whatever else you need to. You should have a decent stove
when you're all done.

 

[vovo222]

Thanks, Hombrewz. Yeah, I noticed that that control rod brace is also made of a softer metal that needed to be banged back into shape, too. It looks like it will bend out again with use at hi temp. The damper hinge locks, also, were bent out, causing damper looseness. A new upper fireback kit, hopefully, will come with better quality metal in these areas. Nonetheless, the recent cold snap (single digit temps) put this whole project into perspective... Since both my local stove shop and the mail order place I spoke with said it could be 3-4 weeks (or more) fulfillment time on the parts order, a 'snap' decision was made: throw it all back together, install it, fire it up and see what happens!

The refractory box was put back together held with wire and stove cement; the new gasket set was installed; the existing cat was kept in place to see if it works. It's been burning OK now through 3 firings (12+ hours each), but it's clear that the damper rod has looseness and binding that may lead to more problems later on. I'll try to get through the season as-is, but will weigh the cost/benefit of new parts and plan a check/rebuild for this summer.

Thanks to all who posted -- we are staying warm ...for now.