VC NC Encore(1450)-no control

[cybex]

Stack temp(12" above top of stove)700 and climbing. Had to stuff my welders gloves into air intake to shut it down. This stove scares me!
Quick story here.
6 years ago purchased a 2550(to replace our 80's Intrepid) from the local dealer down the street(Feens). It was our main heat supply do to the remodeling(only one tank of oil per winter for 2500sq'.) I new it needed to be rebuilt but didn't have the time. Back down to the dealer. This time a 1450. Now for the last 4 weeks of operation, this stove runs best with little wood. If you load her with a full charge, that's when all hell breaks loose. That's what happened Thursday night. I loaded it up for the first time and it went postal. There is too much secondary air. There are no leaks from the griddle, doors or the ash pan. The main problem is no control over the secondary air intake. Now with the old 2550, it would run at 600 griddle and 250 stack all the time. This stove runs 700+ and 400-600 stack with the primary cracked. I've emailed the dealer and asked for an exchange with cash for a 2550 or refund. He emailed me back saying a rep from VC would call me.

1- without mods, does this stove work?
2- is this a known problem?
3- If someone out there says that their stove works fine(no first time stove users)and they live within 50 miles of Leominster, I'll bring beer/wine and wood to see this first hand.

Thanks

Wes

 

[Diabel]

The stove works well under perfect flue setup. Describe your setup...

Mine would run away on me from time to time...I plugged the intake hole 50% with aluminum duct tape & i have not had a run away since.

On a side note your 2550 was beyond repair after 6 yrs?

 

[cybex]

Diabel-
I removed the 6" collar from the 2550 and remounted to the 1450. 2' of stack pipe to 5' of 6" flex with a slight jog thru the fireplace damper opening. Pretty much a straight shot.
As far as the 2550. Its sits in the garage gutted and I have all the parts for the rebuild(cat, hood, refactory assy,...)

Wes

 

[begreen]

What is the length of the liner in the chimney. Reports seem to indicate that these stoves work best with a flue about 16'. Have you tried a draft damper in the flue pipe coming off the stove?

 

[cybex]

BeGreen-
I would say 24'+/-. This being the third stove in the same location, I was hoping it would work just as well. The idea of a Jake brake(belongs on my diesel truck) on the exhaust stack does not sit well with me. A new stove should be tight and have total control on air intake side. I thought dampers were old school, for old stoves? Am I wrong here? The manual for this stove does not mention a stack damper.

Wes

 

[begreen]

I suspect that this is a case of too strong draft on the stove. It seems to be happy with a very narrow range of flue heights(~15-20'). There are several posts from people having this issue with this stove. (Read - Encore glowing red - threads.) From the many reports and VC's responses, this appears to be a classic case of a lab designed and tested stove that performs very well under ideal conditions. However, it performs less than optimally when out of the range of the lab testing. Put a damper on it and it should settle down.

 

[Diabel]

Diabel-
I removed the 6" collar from the 2550 and remounted to the 1450. 2' of stack pipe to 5' of 6" flex with a slight jog thru the fireplace damper opening. Pretty much a straight shot.
As far as the 2550. Its sits in the garage gutted and I have all the parts for the rebuild(cat, hood, refactory assy,...)

Wes

I have 20' with 2 45* elbows & with the intake covered 50% she works like a champ (can't complain). But yes as Green said VC has messed up with this design (you do not hear this from Oakwood owners). If I were you & if possible I would return the stove for a refund & fix your 2550 (you already have the parts).

 

[CTBurner]

I had my 1450 runaway twice in first 2 months, not fun. Dealer checked gaskes and said they were fine, I tightened ash pan door and also 2 front doors and have not had a problem since 3 months, Also now i have much more control over air. even though you say ash pan gasket not leaking , I would bet on it from what i have read here and my experience with my own, I too have lots of draft from 25 foot chim

 

[Diabel]

I had my 1450 runaway twice in first 2 months, not fun. Dealer checked gaskes and said they were fine, I tightened ash pan door and also 2 front doors and have not had a problem since 3 months, Also now i have much more control over air. even though you say ash pan gasket not leaking , I would bet on it from what i have read here and my experience with my own, I too have lots of draft from 25 foot chim

CT,
Are you running with 8" flue or 6"?

 

[CTBurner]

8 inch flue

 

[Diabel]

Interesting, so no matter what flue size...the potential of a runaway is there :bug:

I wonder how many people have bought one of these VC 1450s, operate them without thermometers & without reading the manual!

 

[Northern NH Mike]

I installed the flue damper to have that extra safety from runaways and have not had a problem since.

There was also a thread earlier this winter about rigging up an adjustable control for the secondary, but I cannot recall what the topic title was. It looked relatively easy to fabricate using material from a local hardware store.

As I've read postings this season regarding the Encore I've come to a similar conclusion as Green. The stove works optimally under the lab tested conditions and less so when the variables are changed. When those variables change it requires the addition of a secondary control. I think I'm lucky that my setup approximates the lab's close enough that the stack damper has only been needed once or twice after I loaded too much kiln dried and allowed it to char too much. Try the stack damper or search for that secondary control thread.

 

[cybex]

Guys-
What are we running for temps? Middle of the griddle and stack temps(how far up the stack from the top of the stove in ").
CT- checked the ash pan door again for leaks. No change is flame. Right now its running best with a light wood load(600 and 250 stack).

 

[[email protected]]

We have the Defiant NC. Oval to 6" up 3' then 90 outside to a cleanout. Then 16' of
insulated up. Talking about a draft. It sure makes a rushing sound and the temps go
up. The stack is always 200 degrees more than the griddle at this stage of the burn.

 

[Diabel]

Griddle 500* flue (magnetic) 225* 5.5hrs into the burn.

 

[Northern NH Mike]

Guys-
What are we running for temps? Middle of the griddle and stack temps(how far up the stack from the top of the stove in ").
CT- checked the ash pan door again for leaks. No change is flame. Right now its running best with a light wood load(600 and 250 stack).

The griddle temp sounds about right to me. I keep my thermo on the cast oron next to the griddle and run between 450 and 500* How long can you maintain the 600*? I can typically maintain 2 hours at a temp like that before some reload once the coal bed is formed and the primary is stabilized.

 

[cybex]

NH Mike- The 600* griddle temp is from reloading with one piece or two every- say 40 minutes or so. Oh, and I made a mistake on the last post- the stack temp at this time is 350*. (my lap top is in my service van, and I can't get a signal inside the house with my wireless card. So slow response to your questions, sorry).

 

[Northern NH Mike]

Search for the following Topic Title "VC everburn secondary air control". The author ICY99 gave a list of parts and photo of a secondary control that I was referenced earlier. Might be worth looking into.

 

[cybex]

NH Mike- I'll look into this tomorrow. Have to cook dinner. Thanks- Wes

 

[cybex]

Ok, I'm back to say I had a custom air intake fabricated to control the primary air (last year - sorry for the delay- life). The stove works awesome. The stack temp runs around 300 and the griddle between 600-700. The glass stays clean for days on end (last cleaned the day before Thanksgiving) and has a nice dancing flame (looking at as I post this). I can now go to sleep and or leave the house without fear.
Have pics if anyone is interseted (air intake box).
Thanks

 

[BrowningBAR]

Ok, I'm back to say I had a custom air intake fabricated to control the primary air (last year - sorry for the delay- life). The stove works awesome. The stack temp runs around 300 and the griddle between 600-700. The glass stays clean for days on end (last cleaned the day before Thanksgiving) and has a nice dancing flame (looking at as I post this). I can now go to sleep and or leave the house without fear.
Have pics if anyone is interseted (air intake box).
Thanks

We are always interested n pics.

 

[Northern NH Mike]

Have pics if anyone is interseted (air intake box).
Thanks

Please do post photo and details. Since posting last year I had some run aways that have made me uncomfortable.

 

[cybex]

Let me see if I can attach some of these pics (I've been trying for the last 2 days).

 

[cybex]

The intake pipe I used was from Napa (part #28242) measuring 3 1/8" OD. There are 2 rope gaskets used onto of the flange to seal against the stove (has a taper to it). A 1/4-20 nut was tacked inside the pipe and the wing nuts holds it in place. The second wing nut is used to apply pressure against the pipe to keep the box from rotating/moving from side to side. But do to the weight of the box and the slight pressure form the stove heat shield resting on top, it is not needed. This idea came about when a Vermont Castings tech made the trip down last year to resolve the run away problem with their own reducer they fabricated. It was a plate measuring 3 1/8" across with a 1" hole cut out in the middle. Problem with that was, you couldn't ge the stove going unless you cracked the ash pan door to allow more air in. Hence the adjustable air intake. So it been working out great for me. I can keep the stove longer in the sweet spot-300* for a stack temp and 600-700* for the griddle. In fact, VC should offer something like this for high draft/long chimney runs. Problem solved.

Stay warm

Wes


Today's project- install Harman Accentra insert in the other room (not enough time running 2 woods stoves).

 

[Northern NH Mike]

Wes

Thanks for the specs. I have been experimenting with something to reduce the intake on the rear of my Encore. I like the adjustability of the unit. If/When I get something rigged I'll post for others to see as well.