Visible fire between firebox and flue and rumbling noise

[TSB]

Good morning/day all,

This is my first post. After visiting this site often to decide on a wood stove, I purchased the pacific energy alderlea t5 insert which I love. Thanks to all for the advice.

This brings me to my post, which was concerning me this morning. Lately I’ve been cranking the fire with the door wide open in order to get the fire going. After getting sufficiently hot, I close the door and regulate the fire with the air intake. This morning after a couple weeks, I start the fire as normal and close the door. When regulating the air, I hear a loud rumbling noise when air intake is turned to low. I also noticed for the very first time what I would describe as visible fire in between the firebox viewing area and the flue (where the fan blows out the hot air) - see attached.

After 10-15 minutes, the problem subsided and I no longer hear the rumbling noise. But now I notice there’s an “outside” flame when the flame is high in the firebox.

Is this all normal or safe? Does this indicate damage to the wood stove which makes it unusable?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and advice.

Ryan

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Is your liner connected? It almost looks like you’re seeing fire outside the stove.

You might want to have someone run a camera down your liner, you may have had a chimney fire also. Rumbling isn’t normal.

You shouldn’t need to leave the door wide open to get the fire going.

 

[all night moe]

Your wood is most likely making creosol, adding to an additional problem in the stove.
Get it looked at.

Who installed this? DIY, the dealer, or someone else? If it's dealer installed, I'd be on the phone with them ASAP.

 

[TSB]

Thank you both. I think you’re right. I shined a flashlight while getting the fire going again and noticed there’s certainly a gap between the firebox and where the liner is connect - see attached.

I had a 3rd party install this unit 3 years ago. I’m not sure what my recourse is. I guess I will have to call them and get the liner reconnected to the firebox?

Is there any safety issue using the wood stove in the meantime?

Much appreciative of your feedback.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I wouldn’t use it! You have a hole that could let combustion byproducts into your home.

I think you’ll want to get your liner looked at with a camera too. That rumble may have been a chimney fire. That fire might have knocked your liner loose.

I’d call a sweep.

 

[all night moe]

Don't use it....it is indeed unsafe. Your lucky nothing bad has happened.
It's a blessing you're observant.

I'd hire someone else, if your unable to do it yourself. I would not go with the original installer.

 

[begreen]

It looks like the flue collar is not properly secured. That gap should not be there. There is a specific procedure for bolting on the flue collar that has not been done correctly. It requires removing the baffle and tightening from the inside of the firebox. There will be no gap if the collar is installed correctly.

This needs immediate attention. The insert should not be used until this is correctly addressed.

 

[TSB]

Thank you all for your attention. I appreciate all the helpful responses. I’ll shut it down until it can be addressed.

Best regards,
Ryan

 

[TSB]

Last question to begreen before reaching out to someone, is it possible to fix the issue myself without moving the stove?

 

[begreen]

The fix can be achieved without moving the insert. However, the concern is that if this basic mistake happened, why? Is the liner a bit too short? Were other mistakes made? Was there any damage to the liner?

 

[begreen]

My worry is that creosote built up in the liner due to a lot of cooler air being dumped into the liner at the flue collar. If the creosote later ignited in a chimney fire (the rumbling), then the liner must be inspected top to bottom. It might be that the creosote burn-off was minor and the liner is ok, but this needs eyes on site to verify.

 

[TSB]

Agreed. That's sound reasoning. My next best step, I think, is reach out to the original dealer to have them inspect the installation and assess. Much appreciated begreen!

 

[begreen]

Be polite but firm that this sloppy work put your family's life in danger and that a competent professional assessment of the condition of the liner is needed after the situation is remedied. A camera inspection of the liner may be required for full peace of mind.

 

[TSB]

That makes complete sense. My mistake was I had a 3rd party installer come do the installation.

Do you know if overfiring the firebox could have led to the issue with the flue collar being disconnected?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The 3rd party installer may not have done anything wrong.

I wouldn’t think overfiring the firebox would cause it directly.

The inrush of cold air with the door wide open does cool the flue. This, along with wet wood, a common reason that people keep the door open, can cause creosote formation. That can cause a chimney fire, and that can separate the flue from the collar assuming it started with a secure connection.

I don’t think a wide open door would overfire the box. Now if the door was only open a crack, it could. There is a lot less air rushing in with a cracked door or ill fitting gasket. This will hold the heat in the firebox longer and the heat will build. Now if you had a lot of creosote built up and then the stove over fired it’s possible that the heat could touch off the chimney.

Short answer is if there isn’t any creosote, there isn’t a chimney fire.

 

[begreen]

That makes complete sense. My mistake was I had a 3rd party installer come do the installation.

Do you know if overfiring the firebox could have led to the issue with the flue collar being disconnected?

The good news is that this is a robustly designed insert, so it more likely is ok. An inspection can happen when the insert is cold.

It's unlikely that this would be related to the overfiring if that happened. The collar should have been bolted on solid. There is evidence in the picture that the installer knew something was wrong. It looks like there is some sort of sealant showing at the edge in one of the pictures. If the collar had been properly installed this would not have been needed. That's what made me wonder if the liner needed to be dropped down an additional 1/2" so that the flue collar fit snugly before securing it. Or if the flue collar is secured at all?? He may not have bolted it down and the liner pulled it up as it contracted on cooling?

Don't take this personally, I say this with your safety as first priority. ---
You may be able to sort this out yourself, but only if a) you are careful and don't rush b) have proper tools, are good at DIY, and can follow instructions c) can get up on the roof for inspection and if necessary make a liner adjustment, and d) are willing to do what is necessary to make things safe, even if it means the best course of action is a liner replacement. Otherwise, hire a competent pro or certified sweep to correct the errors.