VT 0028, Engage Cat, Fire Dies

[mpkeelee]

Its possible its the wood. I dont have anything to check it with. But it has been split, stacked and kept dry for atleast 6 months. This wood is all oak from the Oct storm last year.

In bypass mode i can get the griddle temp up fast, but I do it slow to prevent anything getting damaged by heating it too fast.

My apologies, I thought a clay liner over the brick counted as a lined chimney. The chimney is about 20-25 feet high. The 8 inch pipe enters the chimney in the basement about 5 feet from the base of the chimney. Its has an exterior cleanout at the bottom but it is not sealed so it may be pulling in a draft. I do not know the width/length of the clay liner so ill have to climb up and measure. But even so i still have a very strong draft.

The entire inside of the stove was rebuilt due to the original owner over-firing. The second owner put all new parts inside and re-sealed everything. I have checked inside and nothing seems to be worn, warped, ruined or in need of replacement. I bought a new cat only for the piece of mind knowing a new one is installed. I still have the old one. It wasnt clogged but it was fragile and starting to break and some some small pieces missing.

I started loosening bolts on the fireback before coming to work today. When i get home i should be able to remove it and clean it. The only problemn i ran into is trying to remove the damper assembly from the fireback.

 

[rideau]

Don't take your stove apart. It is almost definitely the wood. Oak takes up to three years, and a minimum for 2, to be ready to burn. No way you can burn it successfully in 6 months. You need to do something else about wood. Any chance you can buy some kiln dried, or buy some "seasoned" and mix it with manufactured wood for a year? If you have a local lumberyard you may be able to get a large amount of scrap wood for free, which can be mixed with "seasoned". Or anything like a furniture builder, bowling co, etc? There may be some free dry wood near yu if you look. Even just cut dead ash would be OK.

 

[mpkeelee]

I have some wood covered up next to my shed. I can give that a shot tonight and see what happens. I am actually going to move my oak pile to another location outside where it will be covered and dry 24/7. hopefully it will solve my problem.

Believe me, the last thing i want to do is take the stove apart, which is why i ordered the ash vacuum. My local hearth guy said he has been successful in clearing out fly-ash by attaching a piece of garden hose onto the vaccum and snaking it into the secondary combustion chamber.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I forget who said it above, but to truly test... just cut up some kiln dried lumber (couple two by fours even)... and get it going with *known* dry wood, and she how she rips. Cheap test.

 

[webby3650]

The wood quality is the problem here. Call a few people that are selling wood, ask them how long it has been split and stacked. They most often only split it when they are about to sell and most often never stack it. Look for mixed wood, don't go straight for Oak and Hickory. Make sure it has been split and stacked for at least a full year. The other suggestion above is great too! We see this problem all the time, I try to educate the customer about wood quality every time I install a stove.

 

[mpkeelee]

I'll do the test and see how she goes. Ill post again this weekend with an update and I hope it will be good news. I should really invest in one of those wood humidity sensors.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I started loosening bolts on the fireback before coming to work today. When i get home i should be able to remove it and clean it. The only problemn i ran into is trying to remove the damper assembly from the fireback.

It would be best not to do this. At least not at this point. If you want to check the cat, remove the back access panel at the rear of the stove.

Removing the fireback is a pain in the ass in will frustrate you unless you are very familiar with the stove. Also, you will need to regasket the fireback when you are done, which is also a pain.

 

[mpkeelee]

I put the new cat in and have checked it a couple of times to make sure something strange wasn't going on back there but everything is fine with the cat.

I'll just put the bolts back in and wait. See how it goes this weekend.

 

[elmoleaf]

You might also check the secondary air flap & thermostatic probe attached that controls it. Make sure the flap isn't disconnected from the probe, and that the probe was replaced during the rebuild.

 

[mpkeelee]

I checked it the other night and everything is attached and moving freely. Just to make sure enough air was getting in wedged a bolt in both inlets but the fire still died and temps dropped. I had to switch back to bypass mode and open the doors to get it started again.

 

[begreen]

You should be able to tell the clay liner tile size through the cleanout door. If you want to see if it's too leaky and affecting draft, just duct tape it shut temporarily. If you notice a nice difference, then it will need a seal which is not a big deal. Regular silicone caulk works well.

 

[mpkeelee]

I will put that on my list for tomorrow. Ill seal it up, light a fire, and put some wood from a different source in.

 

[weatherguy]

Maybe pick up some of those bundles of wood Big Y has out in front and see how it reacts with a load of that wood, if everything works as its supposed to its the wood your using. I got some oak from last years snow storm too but dont plan on burning it until 2014-15, oak takes a minimum of two years, sometimes 3 depening on a number of factors.

 

[begreen]

I will put that on my list for tomorrow. Ill seal it up, light a fire, and put some wood from a different source in.

Keep us posted, hope it makes a difference for you.

 

[mpkeelee]

For some reason I was under the impression oak only takes 6-8 months to season and be ready to burn. My brother buys his cords so ill get a few loads from him n see what happens.

 

[BrowningBAR]

For some reason I was under the impression oak only takes 6-8 months to season and be ready to burn. My brother buys his cords so ill get a few loads from him n see what happens.

When did he buy his wood?

I might have some bad news for you...

 

[begreen]

White oak takes about 2 yrs to season under proper conditions. And I'll guarantee you that no wood seller will tell you that. If your brother buys his wood for the same year, then he is probably in the same situation.

 

[mpkeelee]

Ya he may be getting similar wood but he may not notice, he burns an old non-cat defiant. I'll ask a couple buddies, but if I have too ill buy a few from big y or somewhere to test it.

We don't need to burn for heat, we have electric baseboard and a small propane furnace.

 

[Flamestead]

Listen (as you are) to these guys about the dry wood. It is tough to take, like having your manlyness questioned or hearing that you have a bad haircut. But the remedy is simple, as time cures this (just the wood issue). Perhaps a little more expensive for a year or so, but still simple.

 

[Slow1]

I'm putting my money on the wood. Now draft COULD be a part of it too as it really hasn't been all that cold here yet, but given the description of 6 month split oak...

 

[Gark]

Mpkeelee, it is likely both the not-dry wood and a weak draft causing the issue. Our cat stove (also a VC) exhibits much reduced throughput when the damper is closed (the flow area through the cat is much less than the open damper aperature). Measures were needed to improve draft to get our Encore really working right. A strong draft can suck the gasses through the cat and thus pull more fresh air in to burn fuel in the firebox. Colder temps come winter will help draft.

 

[rideau]

MyKeelee, Did you have a fire this evening? If so, how did it go?

 

[mpkeelee]

I just lit the fire a little bit ago.

This morning I put some caulk on my cleanout. It was really drafty so I hope that will help.

I also picked out some older wood that has been sitting dry for over a year.

I had a nice bed of embers and I put in 2 logs. I let it burn for a little while then closed the damper. The fire died a bit but some flames stayed. I could see the flames being sucked in towards the cat.

My only concern is my griddle temp started at 600, and started falling as soon as I closed the damper. In about 30 minutes it was down to 450 but I still had some flames. My flue dropped to around 300, maybe lower. I started using my infrared thermometer on top of my magnetic two just to be sure I knew my temps

 

[rideau]

Flue temp should go down pretty much as soon as you engage the cat. That's good. Means less heat is being lost up the chimney, the cat is working, gases are being burned.

Not sure about your stovetop temp when you engaged the cat, though. That would be way too hot on a Woodstock Soapstone stove...we engage at about 200-250 stovetop. Immediately after engaging, the stove top temp starts climbing. But the temps for engaging may be higher on non-soapstone stoves. ( All my experience has been with soapstone stoves.) And you don't want the temp to go up much above 600 anyway. Optimal burning temp is probably about 450 - 600. This time of year maybe even lower, because you don't need lots of heat and the wood will last longer at lower output. Perhaps your manual gives advice about the correct stovetop temp to achieve before engaging the cat? If not, I'm sure others will post here.

Anyway, does sound like you are having a better burn with dryer wood, and likely the wood supply is your problem.

 

[mpkeelee]

Everything is going pretty good. Burning hot with cat and only a small amount of smoke coming from the chimney.