Warning. Numerous hopper fires.

[JRemington]

In the last 5 years I have seen no hopper fires. In the last two weeks I have seen five. In every one of these the customers stoves were filthy and they were burning horrible pellets. Has anyone here had one or heard of any? Last night there was one and there was liquid creosote in the base of the burn pot holder. What is in some of these pellets? I sent ssyko a video because I can’t get it to upload here but here’s a picture. That flame is coming out of the auger chute.

 

[FirepotPete]

In the last 5 years I have seen no hopper fires. In the last two weeks I have seen five. In every one of these the customers stoves were filthy and they were burning horrible pellets. Has anyone here had one or heard of any? Last night there was one and there was liquid creosote in the base of the burn pot holder. What is in some of these pellets? I sent ssyko a video because I can’t get it to upload here but here’s a picture. That flame is coming out of the auger chute.

IMO, this is a problem that is going to get worse, much worse. The reason? Face Book pages dedicated to pellet stoves.

Those pages (I am a member of a couple and an owner of one) for the most part are people that are new to pellet burning and there is little to no moderation of the content being posted. I and a few other seasoned veteran pellet stove users have been banned for some pages for referring to NFPA 211, or pointing out dangerous installation, maintenance and usage of those stoves.

Unfortunately this is going to end up just like wood burners did after the oil/energy crisis in the 1970's. Everyone and their brother installed wood stoves to stay warm and save big bucks. Few had grown up using them and knowing how to maintain them properly, let alone run or install them properly. Chimney fires, loss of properly, loss of lives eventually pushed insurance companies and local jurisdictions to put restrictive uses and outright bans on wood stoves.

I point as many people as I can to this forum. First reason is that it is moderated and if any of us see something dangerous we can point it out without fear of being banned. We can also reported it if we feel the need and it will be moderated quickly. The final reason is that we have a wide variety of long time pellet stove users that have actual great information to share. I don't see any "well my uncle Fred used aluminum dryer vent for his stove and it works fine" type of comment here. If they have been posted they are either shut down by the mods or the users themselves make sure that the thread is tagged as not just wrong but dangerous.

One disturbing trend I've noticed is with people that claim to be certified chimney techs. While I'm sure a lot of them are very knowledgeable of things from the exhaust pipe to the top of the chimney, many don't have a clue about the pellet stove itself. Mechanical knowledge of them or how they really work. Sad that in some states they are the only acceptable people to install a pellet stove, but that seems the way, especially on the east coast.

 

[Dataman]

Cleaned mine today. 26 bags and forgot to turn back on (light cleaning). So took advantage of it being Cold. It's really easy now (Harmon XXV). She's a burning bright (No difference than before cleaning). But I can see the time when I am 85+ and not wanting to clean it. Then Gas Stove.

 

[SidecarFlip]

In the last 5 years I have seen no hopper fires. In the last two weeks I have seen five. In every one of these the customers stoves were filthy and they were burning horrible pellets. Has anyone here had one or heard of any? Last night there was one and there was liquid creosote in the base of the burn pot holder. What is in some of these pellets? I sent ssyko a video because I can’t get it to upload here but here’s a picture. That flame is coming out of the auger chute.

Besides knowing what you are doing with an install and knowing about proper maintenance. Pellets are very important part of the equation.

I read along on here about people trying different brands and about the good and the bad. My experience has been, research where the extruders feedstock is coming from and base your pellet purchase primarily on that and not cost per ton. A cheap ton made with questionable feedstock can produce tons of ash and possibly issues down the road, especially if the stove owner is lax or not instructed to properly clean the appliance and the frequency of cleaning.

I realize (from reading along on here) that pellets can be a real PITA to source out east at times but the difference between burning junk fuel and burning your house down over running quality pellets made from prime feedstock and not burning your house down is a clear choice with me, that and knowing how to clean and maintain any appliance.

Because I primarily burn corn (like Pete) but I do mix my corn and pellets (unlike Pete), I like to stick with known and proven brands and I do. Of course I have my favorites and I won't plug them on here but suffice to say, find a good brand and stick with it and don't shop around, especially when it comes to price. Good quality feedstock to make quality pellets never comes cheap.

I think the pellet (bio fuel stove) industry does a disservice to end users by presenting them as plug and play. They are in reality the opposite of that. Plug and play mentality will always get you in trouble and can very well burn your house down.

 

[FirepotPete]

Besides knowing what you are doing with an install and knowing about proper maintenance. Pellets are very important part of the equation.

I read along on here about people trying different brands and about the good and the bad. My experience has been, research where the extruders feedstock is coming from and base your pellet purchase primarily on that and not cost per ton. A cheap ton made with questionable feedstock can produce tons of ash and possibly issues down the road, especially if the stove owner is lax or not instructed to properly clean the appliance and the frequency of cleaning.

I realize (from reading along on here) that pellets can be a real PITA to source out east at times but the difference between burning junk fuel and burning your house down over running quality pellets made from prime feedstock and not burning your house down is a clear choice with me, that and knowing how to clean and maintain any appliance.

Because I primarily burn corn (like Pete) but I do mix my corn and pellets (unlike Pete), I like to stick with known and proven brands and I do. Of course I have my favorites and I won't plug them on here but suffice to say, find a good brand and stick with it and don't shop around, especially when it comes to price. Good quality feedstock to make quality pellets never comes cheap.

I think the pellet (bio fuel stove) industry does a disservice to end users by presenting them as plug and play. They are in reality the opposite of that. Plug and play mentality will always get you in trouble and can very well burn your house down.

I agree on the plug and play thinking.

I also agree about the pellets. There is another problem, who is over seeing the QC on such an important part of pellet stoves? PFI? Years ago when I was burning pellets some of the worse ones were PFI certified. Others that weren't PFI certified were great! I also won't name the products as they may be better today than years ago. Hopefully PFI is better than it was years ago.

 

[JRemington]

I agree on the plug and play thinking.

I also agree about the pellets. There is another problem, who is over seeing the QC on such an important part of pellet stoves? PFI? Years ago when I was burning pellets some of the worse ones were PFI certified. Others that weren't PFI certified were great! I also won't name the products as they may be better today than years ago. Hopefully PFI is better than it was years ago.

I have zero respect for PFI Certification. I’m not going to name brands but some are real junk. I’ve also noticed a big increase in chunks of heavy brown paper within the bags. I’m assuming it gets through the grinders. I’ve got a pretty good sample of wet creosote from the one yesterday and a bag of the pellets. We have no idea what they are putting in these pellets and there needs to more oversight on the manufacturing of them. If you combine the bad pellets and lazy owners and you’ve got the beginning of something bad.

 

[JRemington]

I also think salesman downplay the cleaning to make a sale. One customer told me they were told to have it cleaned every two years.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I think (personal observation)pellet producers join the Pellet Fuels Institute and pay their dues just to get to use that certification label on their bags. Just a personal observation on my part, please forgive me if I'm stepping on anyone's toes. I've found from personal experience that today, there is no correlation between that certification label and quality of product contained in the bag. Why I have my preferred brand and stick with it. The brand I use is very consistent in quality and I know where the feedstock comes from.

Going back in time, Pete and Kap and I were all on the defunct IBC forum way back when biomass stoves were sort of an oddity. If you take all 3 of us together, we have about 60 odd years of experience, or about as old as I am...... Most time, we know what we are doing... most times...... lol

Anyone who purchases a solid fuel appliance, be it a pellet or multi fuel or even a wood only stove, they all need to have proper instruction on the use of and the cleaning of and basic instruction on proper venting as well (if the install them, themselves).

Some of the posts I read on here... Are a basic lack of understanding the principles of safe operation and ongoing cleaning, which reminds me, I need to shut mine down tonight before bed time and let the central furnace assume the load. It needs cleaned, been 3 days since the last cleaning. Corn makes a lot of ash even though I mix corn and pellets to reduce hard clinkers.....

And I need to turn on the boob tube and watch the State of the Union Address as well.

All of you have a good evening and stay warm and safe. Sure is great to live in such a fine country.

 

[FirepotPete]

I'd like to clarify my statement about certified chimney techs. I've seen a lot of very good ones, they actually understood the physics of how mechanical pellet/muti-fuel stoves worked, but just like any other trade you do find the bad and those make it bad for users and other techs. And the bad ones stick out and are remembered more than the good ones.

 

[Ssyko]

Jeff im working on your video now.

as a small time pellet maker i know that many use binders in the mix to help make strong and durable pellets, commonly used is a form of corn starch, vegetable oil, extra moisture(water). i researched this data 5 years ago before i bought my mill. now if we look at corn starch that is a carbohydrate consisting of a large number of glucose units joined together by glycosidic bonds. Starch can function as a thickening, stiffening or gluing agent when dissolved in warm water. Now my thoughts on this black gooo, what do you get when you burn sugar?? black carbon! starch+water=black burnable gooooo. poorly maintained stoves is a recipe for disaster!

 

[Montecarlossfan]

In the last 5 years I have seen no hopper fires. In the last two weeks I have seen five. In every one of these the customers stoves were filthy and they were burning horrible pellets. Has anyone here had one or heard of any? Last night there was one and there was liquid creosote in the base of the burn pot holder. What is in some of these pellets? I sent ssyko a video because I can’t get it to upload here but here’s a picture. That flame is coming out of the auger chute.

I haven’t experienced one and neither has my father who has been burning for 10+ years.
On a Harman I would be hard pressed to see one as the auger is on the bottom and the hopper is sealed from outside air under vacuum.
I think it’s more of the uninformed that don’t scrape daily and clean at least every 2 weeks. I go 2-3 weeks easily on turman pellets because they burn clean and have no additives, when I am burning a lesser grade I’ll go 1-2 max since I can tell they burn dirtier.

Also remember we now have the market flooded with cheap stoves as well ... before there were a handful of manufacturers , now everyone is trying to get onboard Making some of these overseas and they aren’t a lazy mans stove per say in the sense that they need a cleaning every week minimum . Some of them the safety’s stop working and one would never know.. I test mine monthly by leaving the hopper open and make sure the stove starts to shutdown as well..

 

[DneprDave]

Why are people shy about naming the crap pellet manufacturers? A bright light should be shined on them!

 

[Montecarlossfan]

Why are people shy about naming the crap pellet manufacturers? A bright light should be shined on them!

I will say the worst pellet I have burned to date was the tractor supply pellets that come from the New Hampshire plant last year .. I don’t know what was in them but I had to empty the ash pan every 3 days! Not any real buildup just dirty as all heck.

 

[zrock]

oh i have ran some crappy pellets this year. Since their is a shortage in the area this year iv tried very local brand with some not making it a few hours before i emptie the hopper and toss em in the garbage.. Even the local mill that does not sell local and is commercial export only gave away about 7000 ton last week to help people get by.. Along with poor pellets people do not read and understand the manual for their stove. Running their stoves on a high setting for long periods of time getting things hotter than they should. I know my stove says not to use setting 4,5 for more than 1/2 hour or so.. i have never used that setting yet... but i can tell previous owner did as well as had it poorly installed in the mobile home i pulled it out of.. Heck i didnt read the directions while it was in the other home and used it as we were doing a lot of renos on that place and it was darn cold out... ran it 24/7 for months without even cleaning it or opening the door..

 

[SidecarFlip]

I haven’t experienced one and neither has my father who has been burning for 10+ years.
On a Harman I would be hard pressed to see one as the auger is on the bottom and the hopper is sealed from outside air under vacuum.
I think it’s more of the uninformed that don’t scrape daily and clean at least every 2 weeks. I go 2-3 weeks easily on turman pellets because they burn clean and have no additives, when I am burning a lesser grade I’ll go 1-2 max since I can tell they burn dirtier.

Also remember we now have the market flooded with cheap stoves as well ... before there were a handful of manufacturers , now everyone is trying to get onboard Making some of these overseas and they aren’t a lazy mans stove per say in the sense that they need a cleaning every week minimum . Some of them the safety’s stop working and one would never know.. I test mine monthly by leaving the hopper open and make sure the stove starts to shutdown as well..

I have to disagree with your statement. First off, both Pete and I own what was and is considered an inexpensive appliance. Think I paid 1200 bucks for mine way back when, don't know what Pete paid for his. It's not the cost of the appliance, they all have to be built to Warnock-Hershey standards to be certified (because like AGA, American Gas Association), they all get a First Article test prior to certification and I worked for AGA for a number of years so I know what that entails and I'm sure Warnock-Hershey performs the same testing regimen on bio mass appliances.

The upfront cost has nothing to do with the appliance performance so long as it's certified. You buy a non-certified appliance, that is on you and no one else.

The issue distills down to proper and ongoing maintenance. Like I've said before. NONE of them are plug and play. You don't maintain them properly, or clean the venting regularly, the onus is entirely on you, the end user and no one else. That is the bottom line....

Far as bio mass pellets are concerned, what works for me and what works for you is entirely a regional matter. Pellet mills are regional operations. It's not economically feasible to the pellet mill or the end user to transport pellets over great distances. The transportation cost would negate any profit to be made. You won't pay that price and frankly, neither would I so because pellet extrusion is regional. you need to find a regional pellet extruder and stick with them, not buy this and that all the time.

To say TSC sells crap pellets is flat out wrong. TSC sells regional brands. I happen to get mine at TSC because it's convenient and I buy by the ton. TSC happens to carry the brand that I like, Michigan Hardwood. I know what they use for feedstock and that is what I buy. However, because the transportation economics play into that equation, I'm sure you won't be able to get them.

Finally, no bio mass appliance should be considered a primary heat source, only a secondary application and that includes all appliances from bio-mass appliances to wood stoves. Again, I take issue with your presumptions. They aren't based on fact, only opinion.

 

[Overfireinthehole]

I saw a hopper fire on a quad trekker the other day. Customer burning some filthy Timberlake pellets. It was such a rare occurrence for a Mt Vernon style stove that Quad had us send the unit back for testing. Got called for one yesterday on a P43 but it turned out it just smoked into the hopper because the lid was cracked and it ran out of pellets. There’s definitely a lot of Mickey Mouse amateurism going on.

 

[tiger]

Why are people shy about naming the crap pellet manufacturers? A bright light should be shined on them!

At least, if there's correlation between one of more brands of pellets, and the instances of hopper fires, I'd for one find that interesting.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I saw a hopper fire on a quad trekker the other day. Customer burning some filthy Timberlake pellets. It was such a rare occurrence for a Mt Vernon style stove that Quad had us send the unit back for testing. Got called for one yesterday on a P43 but it turned out it just smoked into the hopper because the lid was cracked and it ran out of pellets. There’s definitely a lot of Mickey Mouse amateurism going on.

Yes there is. They (biomass appliances) do lend themselves to amateruism), which is all well and good so long as you accept the responsibility for your actions (and your insurance company does as well....)

I want to touch on pellets a bit more.

I read many comments on here about 'dirty' and 'ashy' pellets.

If there is a 'self cleaning' appliance out there, I want one.

If your pellets are producing an excessive amount of ash, clean the appliance more often. Myself, even though the pellets I run are low ash, I burn corn as well and consequently, I get a ton of ash from it. I CLEAN MY STOVE EVERY 3 DAYS and I don't mean shovel the ash into the ash pan either. It gets cleaned everywhere including behind the baffles as well as the burn floor. I 'shovel' the ash (well use a paint brush) into the ash pan which gets emptied at least ever 6 days and then I vacuum out the interior. Every month, the outside venting gets the leaf blower trick and I empty the cleanout at the bottom of the Tee as well.

Bottom line is, if it's making excessive ash, up your cleaning regimen to a more frequent interval. The appliance sets the cleaning frequency, not the owner.

Don't care who makes the unit, if it's loaded with ash and the venting is restricted, it's gonna burn back or fail.

 

[Smokinbubba]

I agree with most of this... I dont really see any difference with any of the hardwoods I have burned this year. and I have burned 5 or 6 diff brands. They all leave a fine ash in my burn plate. I have never scraped or reamed holes in my burn plate. I feel with help from great folks here, I have my englander PDV tuned perfectly to burn anything to a fine ash. I also scoop ash every day, sometimes twice a day if it has really been cranking. No ash pan so I have to scoop and vac once a week. LBT after every ton, if I even get that far this winter. 12 bags left in my first ton so far since Dec 5th. Ive seen some pics here of stoves that look as if they have never been cleaned. Don't know how anyone can treat a beautiful stove like that.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I saw a hopper fire on a quad trekker the other day. Customer burning some filthy Timberlake pellets. It was such a rare occurrence for a Mt Vernon style stove that Quad had us send the unit back for testing. Got called for one yesterday on a P43 but it turned out it just smoked into the hopper because the lid was cracked and it ran out of pellets. There’s definitely a lot of Mickey Mouse amateurism going on.

Over, do you see a lot of Ozark Hardwood Pellets distributed in Missouri? My local TSC sells them. Very distinctive-looking pellet, almost black.

 

[Overfireinthehole]

Are you talking OHP or Fiber Energy or Ozark Heat? I’d have to see the bag because there are several pellets that meet that description that all say Ozark Hardwood somewhere on the bag. Fiber Energy is one that comes under different brand names because they have built a poor reputation due to their low quality.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Poor feedstock or poor extrusion methods?

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

OHP is what TSC has up here.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I think the best extruded pellet I've ever run in all my many years of roasting them was by a company located in Northern Kentucky that used the scraps from their hardwood flooring mill to extrude pellets. When you opened the bag, you could literally smell the walnut. Haven't seen them in years now.

 

[DneprDave]

I use CleanBurn pellets, they are douglas fir pellets. I vacuum what I can reach from the door weekly and do the leaf blower trick after every ton burned. The stove works great with that schedule.