Water Sediment

[GoldFly]

Hi all,

I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get rid of the sediment in our water for a while now. Our house was built about 2 years ago, so we were told there would be a "breaking in" period for the well and it would spit out sediment during that time. Given that it's been 2 years now, it seems that should've stopped. I've installed 2 spin-down filters (100 micron and 50 micron) as well as a whole house filter (50 micron), but still getting lots of the stuff shown in the picture below (Sharpie for scale) clogging up sink aerators and making its way through the bathtub spout into the bath water since there's no aerator on that.

This stuff is definitely larger than 50 microns, so I don't understand how it could be getting through the filters I have installed. It has a bit of a reddish tint to it, which made me think it could be rust or iron buildup, but the house is all PEX so that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me either. We do have somewhat hard water, but I wouldn't expect that to produce granules of this size. Interested to hear if anyone can identify what this sediment is and how it keeps getting in. I've ordered a couple 5 micron filters to try out, but I don't have a whole lot of hope that that will work either.

 

[tlc1976]

Possibly settled in your water heater? Maybe try draining your water heater and see what you get.

 

[zrock]

looks like hard water deposits that are possibly clogging up the filter and somehow finding their way through..

 

[GoldFly]

For what it's worth, we have one of those wall-mounted boilers. My next thought is to pry that open and see if there's anything in there.

This stuff doesn't show up in the filters I have installed, which is why I'm so baffled.. It's either not getting caught or is already somewhere in the system between the filter and rest of the house.

 

[tlc1976]

For what it's worth, we have one of those wall-mounted boilers. My next thought is to pry that open and see if there's anything in there.

This stuff doesn't show up in the filters I have installed, which is why I'm so baffled.. It's either not getting caught or is already somewhere in the system between the filter and rest of the house.

My old house had very hard water with iron. It would get in anything metal and cause corrosion, and I would see little particles like that mainly from the hot water tank. But it would corrode everything. A Culligan water softener was only partially effective.

My guess is it sounds like that’s what’s going on. The results of corrosion happening after the filter. Thankfully you have pex so you can narrow down the sources. It would be interesting to see if it’s done anything to the boiler.

My new house has hard water but thankfully just calcium and lime. Which has its own issues but at least doesn’t stink and cause rust stains. I’ll take that over the old water anyday.

 

[zrock]

Yes then I would say its hard water deposits. To fine for a filter but are building up and then coming though system

 

[mcdougy]

Do you have rust in your toilet bowl and tank if you lift the lid? You could read up on iron in your water and you may have the more common iron that appears when water meets air. A iron remover may be needed along with a softener. A water tech company should be able to solve your issues or at least give you the source of your issue. You could diy after knowing what your water teats at.

 

[Highbeam]

Spin down filters are just screens to protect and reduce the load on your actual filter. You need an actual sediment filter to catch that grit. It’s coming from either the ground or the well casing. Possibly even the pipe to the pump since some folks still use iron pipe for that too.

My well water has tons of that grit (almost 60 years old!) as well as iron so I have a real, full size iron filter that’s like 5 feet tall and backwashes. The media oxidizes and removes iron plus any grit that makes it past my grit screens. No more plugged aerators or scratchy valves.

Go to some place real like clean water store.com. No cartridges.

 

[Brian26]

For what it's worth, we have one of those wall-mounted boilers. My next thought is to pry that open and see if there's anything in there.

This stuff doesn't show up in the filters I have installed, which is why I'm so baffled.. It's either not getting caught or is already somewhere in the system between the filter and rest of the house.

I can almost guarantee you this is your issue. If its an on demand tankless unit they need to be descaled every 500 hours. When you supply those style heaters with untreated well water all the minerals cause scale buildup on the heat exchanger. It also significantly lowers the efficiency as the tiny passages in the heat exchanger are probably plugged up.

You need to get your water tested and will most likely have to install a water softener and better filter. The units usually have 2 connections on them for flushing the heat exchanger with a solvent or vinegar. It can be done yourself or you can have a company do it. Companies usually have a machine that does it.

I would bet your washing machine and dishwasher valve, aerators, and shower heads are all plugged up.

I would personally look into a heat pump water heater and use the on demand unit for just your baseboard heat. I believe Vermont has a generous incentives for one.

I had a few apartments with on demand units that I ripped out due to this exact scaling issue. The units would plug up every 6 months or so. Was too much maintenance descaling and didn't want to spend a fortune on water softeners and filters. In a tank the sediment settles to the bottom and can be flushed out easily.

 

[Eureka]

Something downstream of the filters could be collecting sediment/corroding/reacting. A lone galvanized or black fitting somewhere can be the magnet for all the junk.
Here’s the result 2 years after a brainiac local plumber installed a hot water recirculating system for somebody using a cast iron pump and flanges, and a steel hydronic heating expansion tank instead of a potable water tank. It destroyed the above items plus really fouled up their fancy wall mount combi boiler and downstream PEX piping. Hopefully they didn’t cook or drink much of the hot water... The persistent water staining even with a softener and 2 stage filter system installed was a sign.


The appropriate stainless pump that I put in:

 

[Corey]

Lots of possible sources after your filter as mentioned above. But your water also has a property called TDS or Total Dissolved Solids. Being dissolved in the water, this material won't get filtered out...even if you have a single micron sized filter. But changes in temperature, pressure or reactions with other materials can cause them to drop out of the water and form scale.

You can get a rough idea of TDS by evaporating a pot of water and seeing what is left. Meters are also fairly cheap/easy to come by if you just need a number. A formal water test could tell you how much TDS you have and the composition. sodium, magnesium, calcium, iron, manganese compounds are all fairly common. Lead, arsenic, mercury, chromium, etc are less common, but obviously of greater concern.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

What Eureka said. Plus tankless on demand water heaters don't like well water.
Your picture looks like rust particles.
Follow your water line from the filter to the water heater and look for a black iron fitting or nipple.

 

[firefighterjake]

I can almost guarantee you this is your issue. If its an on demand tankless unit they need to be descaled every 500 hours. When you supply those style heaters with untreated well water all the minerals cause scale buildup on the heat exchanger. It also significantly lowers the efficiency as the tiny passages in the heat exchanger are probably plugged up.

You need to get your water tested and will most likely have to install a water softener and better filter. The units usually have 2 connections on them for flushing the heat exchanger with a solvent or vinegar. It can be done yourself or you can have a company do it. Companies usually have a machine that does it.

I would bet your washing machine and dishwasher valve, aerators, and shower heads are all plugged up.

I would personally look into a heat pump water heater and use the on demand unit for just your baseboard heat. I believe Vermont has a generous incentives for one.

I had a few apartments with on demand units that I ripped out due to this exact scaling issue. The units would plug up every 6 months or so. Was too much maintenance descaling and didn't want to spend a fortune on water softeners and filters. In a tank the sediment settles to the bottom and can be flushed out easily.

When I started looking for a replacement water heater I considered the tankless wall mount . . . but went with the recommendation of the techs where I purchase oil and propane who said the exact same thing as you . . . namely that with hard water like we have we would have a lot of issues and frequent cleaning would be needed. Ended up going with a traditional gas boiler that was a little more efficient than the old heater.

 

[Brian26]

When I started looking for a replacement water heater I considered the tankless wall mount . . . but went with the recommendation of the techs where I purchase oil and propane who said the exact same thing as you . . . namely that with hard water like we have we would have a lot of issues and frequent cleaning would be needed. Ended up going with a traditional gas boiler that was a little more efficient than the old heater.

You ever see what the inside of one looks like. There are soo many electronics and sensors. They are way too complex.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

You ever see what the inside of one looks like. There are soo many electronics and sensors. They are way too complex.
View attachment 272957

The KISS principle works best on water heaters.

 

[Highbeam]

The KISS principle works best on water heaters.

I agree. My 350$ rheem tank heater will get zero maintenance. Swap out when something breaks. Nice having 40 gallons of hot water when the power is out. Silent, dependable, no vent, cheap to run on 11 cent power.

 

[CaptSpiff]

..... But changes in temperature, pressure or reactions with other materials can cause them to drop out of the water and form scale.

You can get a rough idea of TDS by evaporating a pot of water and seeing what is left.

Just an observation from way back in the day: In college, first time in a really hard water area, put a glass coffee carafe on the stove and watched it come to boil. Looked like it was snowing inside the carafe, as "things" precipitated out. That was the time I learned about the need for descaling. Some things just stick with you.

 

[Mainely Saws]

We filter water drawn from a lake ( used for non cooking and drinking needs ) and a 50 micron filter really just stops large pieces of sediment . I have a whole house 50 micron filter followed by a 20 micron filter which works ok but I am considering adding a third 5 micron charcoal filter in line as well .............

Bob

 

[semipro]

Lots of possible sources after your filter as mentioned above. But your water also has a property called TDS or Total Dissolved Solids. Being dissolved in the water, this material won't get filtered out...even if you have a single micron sized filter. But changes in temperature, pressure or reactions with other materials can cause them to drop out of the water and form scale.

This happens in tank-type electric water heaters too. The minerals form on the heating elements and then fall off to gather at the bottom of the tank.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

We filter water drawn from a lake ( used for non cooking and drinking needs ) and a 50 micron filter really just stops large pieces of sediment . I have a whole house 50 micron filter followed by a 20 micron filter which works ok but I am considering adding a third 5 micron charcoal filter in line as well .............

Bob

We did the same on Lake George in NY. I did a screen type filter followed by 5 micron and then ran it thru a UV light.