Water softener......saltless, salt, magnetic....who knows??

[BoilerMan]

Anyone else have slightly hard water? My well tests out at 6 grains hardness, which is just enough to bother, but not enough to really gunk things up.

I have been weighing some options as I don't want to foul my expensive indirect water heater.

Anyone have any first hand experience with any of the three? I've installed some traditional salt brine ion exchange systems, but have little knowledge of any of the others and if they work.

THANKS!

TS

 

[Highbeam]

To soften water you use a water softener and those use salt. Low hardness just means less frequent regenerations.

 

[mustash29]

I have been looking into an acid neutralizer and softener setup myself.

http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/ seems to have a good bit of everything you could possibly need for water treatment. I like their package deals, combination of the "best" parts available: fiberglass tanks, valve assemblies, manual to fully automatated control heads, etc. Seem to have decent prices too. Culligan quoted me > 6 grand to raise pH and lower hardness.

 

[firebroad]

I have a neutralizer and water softener, our water around here is pretty rough. The acid neutralizer raises the hardness of the water, as it is using calcium and other minerals as a medium to lower the PH; therefore, the softener.
Your pipes will thank you, and you will use a fraction of the soap you used before. I had a bit of a personal adjustment to make, having come from "city" water to softened well water; my skin felt slimy after bathing, my bread dough was sticky, and coffee was kind of weak tasting.
But I got used to it. I used vinegar to rinse my hair, brought in jugs of city water for the bread and increased the coffee grounds.
For seven years my hardness came in at 0 grains; After it started going up, I invested in a new softener, as the one I had was about 12-15 years old. The new one seems to soften at about 2 grains, not sure what the deal is, but the water tastes better, and I notice the lathering isn't quite as profuse as before.
As far as mineral buildup, I have noticed a lot a white corrosion around the cutoff fittings in the kitchen, but that might have been due to the system being in disuse before I moved in, as it was being rented and I don't know if the occupants used the softener.
I notice a slight almost baking soda taste to the water; my grandson, however, thinks it tastes better than the municipal water he drinks.

 

[Highbeam]

I have been looking into an acid neutralizer and softener setup myself.

http://www.cleanwaterstore.com/ seems to have a good bit of everything you could possibly need for water treatment. I like their package deals, combination of the "best" parts available: fiberglass tanks, valve assemblies, manual to fully automatated control heads, etc. Seem to have decent prices too. Culligan quoted me > 6 grand to raise pH and lower hardness.

I ordered my iron filter system from these guys and am planning on installing it this weekend. Great guys and everything but performance of the system has been great so far. You can spend hours on their site reading and then their techs actually will walk you through the questions you might have. These guys are the real deal.

I am a civil engineer and one of my jobs is water treatment. I have installed treatment devices and then conducted taste and odor panels where I have people test and rate 5 different water samples (my new one being one of them) and it is amazing how consistent people are at picking up aromas and flavors.

In case you wondered, unchlorinated spring water always seems to be the favorite. By "spring" I mean we locate a wet spot in a hillside and dig it out, put in gravel and a pipe and collect the water from the wet spot. It's almost surface water.

 

[KB007]

Buddy of mine has a salt free softener and a separate neutralizer. Bitches constantly about both. We have a simple Kenmore salt based softener (demand based) and it does a fine job. Only downside is humping the salt bags down to the basement to fill it. Because it's demand based and there's only 2 of us, we don't really use a lot of water and it recycles less often. Had a Culligan in our old house, same thing, same results.

Just make sure if you are on a septic that it doesn't drain the backwash (salt water) into your septic.

 

[jebatty]

The acid neutralizer raises the hardness of the water, as it is using calcium and other minerals as a medium to lower the PH; therefore, the softener.

Lowering pH raises acidity, not lowers it. You may mean that calcium etc. raises the alkalinity which neutralizes the acid, and therefore the hardness is increased.Then you may desire a softener to replace the calcium and other minerals (hardness) with sodium or potassium to get softer water. Do you know what the pH in your water was (is) before the neutralization? If pH was less than 7.0 (acidic), do you know what harmful effect if any that lower pH had on your water system? What were the symptoms of that harm from the acidic water?

Usually pH between 6.5 and 8.5 is fine for drinking water. Naturally soft water normally is slightly acidic (pH < 7.0), and naturally hard water normally is somewhat basic (pH > 7.0).
http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education/quality-water-ph-page2.htm

Although some believe that softener backwash into a septic system is not good, the studies I have seen indicate that it does no harm to the system because the saltiness (sodium/potassium) added to the system is inconsequential and depending on soil type actually might be slightly beneficial.

 

[firebroad]

Lowering pH raises acidity, not lowers it. You may mean that calcium etc. raises the alkalinity which neutralizes the acid, and therefore the hardness is increased.Then you may desire a softener to replace the calcium and other minerals (hardness) with sodium or potassium to get softer water. Do you know what the pH in your water was (is) before the neutralization? If pH was less than 7.0 (acidic), do you know what harmful effect if any that lower pH had on your water system? What were the symptoms of that harm from the acidic water?

Usually pH between 6.5 and 8.5 is fine for drinking water. Naturally soft water normally is slightly acidic (pH < 7.0), and naturally hard water normally is somewhat basic (pH > 7.0).
http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education/quality-water-ph-page2.htm

Although some believe that softener backwash into a septic system is not good, the studies I have seen indicate that it does no harm to the system because the saltiness (sodium/potassium) added to the system is inconsequential and depending on soil type actually might be slightly beneficial.

Whoops, meant to say, ...it is using calcium and other minerals as a medium to RAISE the PH...
Sorry, I gets confused

 

[Laurent Cyr]

Same here too.

Our water left a white residue all around the faucets. He had it tested, and it came back as being hard water. We had a water softener installed, and the water is much better. The backwash goes into our septic system. The plumber said there was no problem to do that.

 

[johneh]

We have been back washing into the septic for 30 years have never had a problem
but we pump the tank every third year.

 

[Highbeam]

It's not the salt that I worry about in the septic, it's the huge quantities of backwash water. Your septic system is designed for a particular amount of sewage to soak into the ground without saturation of the soils. Your increase to that sewage flow is like putting another house's (or portion of another house's) sewage into your system. Maybe you're lucky and your system has plenty of extra capacity but often, these systems are on the ragged edge of failure. I dump to the roof downspout system.

Acidic water will first begin eating your copper pipes and dissolving that into the water before you even notice it. Your acidic water makes softening and other treatment processes difficult or impossible. Some folks have seriously acid water, like into the 4s. Ignore alkalinity, but hardness is surely increased with a standard neutralizer and that hardness might make your water so high that you need to soften the water following the neutralizer.

Hint for you future water treatment home installer guys.... always order 3/4" filter heads, that way you can use water heater flex hoses with rubber washers and avoid trying to seal tapered plastic pipe threads.

 

[Laurent Cyr]

We have a dual system to dump our backwash. In the summer, the backwash is dumped through a pipe to the ditch. Since this pipe is likely to freeze in the winter, in winter we dump it in our septic system. We had our septic system re-done a couple of years ago because it was due. Cost was 21K. The system can handle a 4 bedroom house. We are only 2 people currently living here, so I`m not too worried about the septic`s capacity to take on a lot of water.

 

[Highbeam]

I had a fun sunday setting up my home water treatment. Just need to set the iron filter now. It is basicly a softener with different media and a chlorine backwash instead of salt.

Raw comes in on the left, raw and treated pressure gauges, raw and treated hose bibs, bypass valving, and a 60 mesh grit filter prior to the filter. I plan on using stainless steel corrugated flex lines for the actual filter hookup. The 2" drain line on the right goes to a trap and then to the downspouts.

 

[granpajohn]

HighBeam.....are you running anything besides the Fe and mesh filters? (softener, e.g.). If so; what is the layout? (I know it should be iron first, but want to hear from some real world experience.)

 

[Highbeam]

HighBeam.....are you running anything besides the Fe and mesh filters? (softener, e.g.). If so; what is the layout? (I know it should be iron first, but want to hear from some real world experience.)

I tested my well's water and had good ph, low hardness, some iron, and a light musty smell. I dont need a softener but i do need to get that iron out which will also strip the smell. If i were to add a softener, it would go after the iron filter. A softener could probably take care of my iron level but the smell could be sulfur or iron bacteria which are not good for softeners. My hardness level was only 16 ppm which is less than one grain. A lot of this is educated guessing. Ideally, and at work, ee would set up a small scale pilot test.

 

[semipro]

I had a fun sunday setting up my home water treatment. Just need to set the iron filter now. It is basicly a softener with different media and a chlorine backwash instead of salt.

Raw comes in on the left, raw and treated pressure gauges, raw and treated hose bibs, bypass valving, and a 60 mesh grit filter prior to the filter. I plan on using stainless steel corrugated flex lines for the actual filter hookup. The 2" drain line on the right goes to a trap and then to the downspouts.

Nice job. I like the PEX.
Are you using the copper rings or the stainless pinch clamps? I can't tell from the photo.

 

[Highbeam]

Nice job. I like the PEX.
Are you using the copper rings or the stainless pinch clamps? I can't tell from the photo.

Copper rings, almost 70 on that wall. 100% success with them so far.

 

[BoilerMan]

So, back to the original question............ Anyone using anything but a salt/potassium chloride based softener system.

My water test results:

pH- 7.5
Nitrates- 5ppm
Nitrites- 0
Total Alkalinity 100ppm
Total Hardness 25ppm
Iron 0
Copper 0
chlorine 0
Bacteria Neg
Lead Neg




Well is 200' drilled in 2009, pump is 180' submersable
Thanks
TS

 

[Highbeam]

So, back to the original question............ Anyone using anything but a salt/potassium chloride based softener system.

My water test results:

pH- 7.5
Nitrates- 5ppm
Nitrites- 0
Total Alkalinity 100ppm
Total Hardness 25ppm
Iron 0
Copper 0
chlorine 0
Bacteria Neg
Lead Neg




Well is 200' drilled in 2009, pump is 180' submersable
Thanks
TS

Your first post says 6 grains of hardness but these results show less than 2 grains of hardness. You already have soft water. Your test report looks great.

 

[BoilerMan]

Sorry, the 6 grains was from memory (not that reliable) the test results are actual that I pulled out of the file cabinet.

The 25ppm is the average of two water tests, one was 0ppm and the other was 50ppm, the scale is 50ppm so............

TS

 

[bbone]

I have used this for 7 years, really works, no more salt bags, great for wells
http://www.scalewatcher.com/us/

 

[BoilerMan]

I have used this for 7 years, really works, no more salt bags, great for wells
http://www.scalewatcher.com/us/

Anyone else? This looks interesting, I must admit it looks scam-ish............. But I do trust the people on Hearth.

TS