Way To Use Existing Hydronic Radiator System With Wood

[Bk1]

I purchased this home about a year ago. It has a LP boiler with hydronic baseboard radiators. I am wondering if there is a good way to tie into the system to supplement with wood for heating?

The existing boiler is 30 years old and will need to be replaced soon. So, I thought now would be the time to look at a solution if we are going to be re-doing any aspect of the existing system.

We have wood on our property but not so much that an outdoor system would be a good fit. We don't have enough to be self sufficient using that much wood.

Where would you guys suggest I start? I have tried asking some of the heating companies that I had come in to do work on our existing system and they are no help. It sounds like anyone they knew that was even in the outdoor wood boiler market are no longer.

What would you guys suggest?

 

[maple1]

Yes.

I would suggest a start would be binge-reading of this place, as there are many ways to do this - which ways you go would likely come down to your exact situation, and your preferences. Time is getting very sort for having something in place for this coming winter, starting from scratch like this (this winters wood should already have been processed & drying for a year, for one thing) - so bury yourself & start planning for next year. First post is too general & broad to offer much beyond this, for me at least.

 

[Highbeam]

First things first. How do you feel about spending 10-15 thousand dollars to heat water with wood plus need to replace that lpg boiler?

 

[__dan]

Wood heat is a much smaller percentage of the market. So conventional heating companies will be targeting where the majority is, lowest installed cost without concern for best value or lowest cost over the life of the install. A state of the art hydronic wood heat system is a much higher installed cost so there's going to be some mismatch between what you are asking for and what most heating companies do on a day to day basis.

I do feel wood heat can be very economical and money saving over the life of the install. But most customers do not count the money that way.

IMO there should be a reference design install as millions of homes are in exactly the same scenario, needing a boiler heating update where the existing system was a lowest installed cost system.

Cordwood or pellets, if you add in and compare all the costs, pellets could be the clear winner for lower cost and less time consumed, unless you like having cordwood processing as a hobby.

Reference design, one of the state of the art European modulating fire pellet boilers, Windhager Froling, change to primary secondary near boiler piping with outside air temp OAT hot water reset of the secondary distribution plumbing. Run the baseboards at a lower OAT reset water temp (100 to 140 F) to maintain a longer constant lower load on the boiler (longer boiler run time reduced or eliminated short cycling) with the primary boiler loop running boiler water temp (160 to 180 F).

I would not consider keeping the LP boiler in that scenario. Pellet boiler primary.

I can imagine it may be hard to find local heat contractors doing that install every day. It would have to sell at a much higher installed cost over conventional boiler replacement. A new condensing type LP boiler should have hot water reset control built in. The equipment dealers, Windhager, Froling would be the place to start.

New windows, flashing, insulation, and siding, new construction methods and material, could cut your heat loss in half and give more bang for the buck over the life of the installation.

 

[leon]

Get a heat loss study done before you spend any money!!.
Good boilers properly maintained do not have to be replaced.

All you may need is a good cleaning and properly calibrating
the old burner or a new more efficient gas burner head.

Who told you you needed a new boiler?????, if your boiler has
a leak in the jacket maybe but you may just need a few new parts
and a new Low Water Cut Off for plumbing code.

I went with a dual fuel coal stoker as the pellet boilers were 3-8,000
more plus the cost of installation.


Get a heat loss study done first

 

[Karl_northwind]

What part of the state are you located in? I may be able to refer you to someone. There are a lot more things to deal with on selling wood heating equipment, so many heating contractors don't do it.
But there are some of us that do it primarily, and do other heating systems (all hydronics in my case) less often.

A heat loss analysis is a good place to start, and a check out of the existing boiler really is necessary. Determining whether it can stay in place as a serviceable backup after some service, or whether it's going away and starting from scratch (easier and more reliable, but not cheaper) is a good place to start.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Wood stove is one of my backups as well as oil boiler. Variety is the spice of life! Hot water heat is so much more even than hot air.

 

[velvetfoot]

Is there a flu for a stove or a fireplace for an insert on the first floor? That's nice and cheap(er) supplemental heating. Plus, especially with a stove (less so with an insert), if you have no electricity or generator, you can still heat your house. Plus, you don't have to bring your wood down into the basement. Plus, it's nice to look at. And, if you want to get really warm in a hurry, in front of it is where you want to stand.

With a wood boiler in the basement you have to think about:
-Wood storage (basement storage could be a bug factor plus takes up room in basement, is there an outside door to bring in wood?,
-Flue
-500-1000 thermal storage tank, which are really expensive if you buy one, much less so if you insulate an old propane tank)

The big plus for me for the boiler is the even heat. We have an insert in the living room and I try to keep that going as much as I can, and the boiler maintains the house base temperature or if something more is desired in the evenings upstairs.

As far as fuels go, depending on where you are, lp might be cheaper than wood you buy processed or more so, pellets. That's now though. I would think wood would always be more economical than pellets, and you're not counting on manufacturers, suppliers, etc.

As far as my pellet boiler setup goes, I could leave town for a while since there is a .75 ton (effective) pellet box with auto (pneumatic) feed, plus my oil boiler is hooked up for backup. The pellet boiler requires minimal maintenance.

Make sure you get a gasification boiler if you go that route.

 

[peakbagger]

I have a friend that added a heat transfer coil over his wood stove. He heats the primary house with a woodstove in the basement. He has a temperature sensor on the coil and whenever the coil Is warm the oil boiler circulator pump runs. If the thermostat zone isn't calling for heat he dumps the heat into a fan coil heater in an unheated area in addition off his basement. He has a safety relief on the loop if the circulator fails. He also has some valves unions on the piping so he can physically rotate the coil out of the way and run the woodstove if he is ever out of oil. He uses oil for shoulder seasons and then switches to wood for the cold weather. He has been running this way for 10 plus years.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I use my oil backup in shoulder seasons too , for when you need a quick warmup on a cold morning and those one cold day a week times in spring and fall.

 

[Bk1]

What part of the state are you located in? I may be able to refer you to someone. There are a lot more things to deal with on selling wood heating equipment, so many heating contractors don't do it.
But there are some of us that do it primarily, and do other heating systems (all hydronics in my case) less often.

A heat loss analysis is a good place to start, and a check out of the existing boiler really is necessary. Determining whether it can stay in place as a serviceable backup after some service, or whether it's going away and starting from scratch (easier and more reliable, but not cheaper) is a good place to start.

I am in SE WI halfway between Milwaukee and Madison.

 

[Bk1]

The home inspector said it should be replaced as 30 years is getting to be at the end of it's expected life span. Then, we had a couple heating contractors come through to give us quotes on adding in some radiators to the system and changing a zone. They seemed to agree that we are on borrowed time.

I do have 4 cords of wood ready to go that I processed last winter. I posted in the hearth room about asking for suggestions on a wood stove/fireplace setup. Our house isn't really designed around having one so our options to retro-fit at this point aren't many. I was thinking that I could have a wood stove in place for this winter to at least cover ourselves in case the boiler did go out. Then, try to figure out for next year what we want to do moving forward.

We live on 20 acres about 8 of which is wooded. So, I plan on a good amount of the wood coming from there. Beyond that, I would have to see how it goes.

 

[Highbeam]

The home inspector said it should be replaced as 30 years is getting to be at the end of it's expected life span. Then, we had a couple heating contractors come through to give us quotes on adding in some radiators to the system and changing a zone. They seemed to agree that we are on borrowed time.

I do have 4 cords of wood ready to go that I processed last winter. I posted in the hearth room about asking for suggestions on a wood stove/fireplace setup. Our house isn't really designed around having one so our options to retro-fit at this point aren't many. I was thinking that I could have a wood stove in place for this winter to at least cover ourselves in case the boiler did go out. Then, try to figure out for next year what we want to do moving forward.

We live on 20 acres about 8 of which is wooded. So, I plan on a good amount of the wood coming from there. Beyond that, I would have to see how it goes.

Home inspectors are notorious for silly CYA maneuvers like that. Sometimes just to milk the seller for more cash. Still, a 30 year old boiler was most certainly an 80% efficient model or worse. Modern gas boilers can be way up into the mid 90% efficiencies, often much smaller, and vented through the wall with PVC.

 

[Ashful]

Can't speak for your boiler, but I've owned many an oil-fired boiler over 30 years old, with no signs of quitting. The efficiencies of oil-fired boilers haven't changed that much (to make it worth the cost of replacement) in that time, but again... can't speak for LP.

Since I see you also posted about a woodstove install, I'll make this comment: heating with wood is a lot of work. It takes a very unique individual to subject themselves to that work, without providing the simple enjoyment of sitting in front of the fire in the evening. For this reason, I went the stove route. Yes, I know it will never heat 100% of my large space as evenly as a boiler might. But, I use far less wood, get to enjoy sitting in front of a fire, and still put one heck of a huge dent in my yearly heating bill.