What am I doing wrong?

[crater22]

I have read every thread here and printed out quite a few. But I am confused (as usual). The highest temp from the insert I have been able to get is 450, BUT the cat was reading 1800. At that point I start getting nervous and start shutting it down. When I do that, of course the insert temp goes down. I cannot get a long burn since when I pack the box it gets hotter faster and causes me to keep an eye on it and constantly adjusting it. No way right now that I would feel safe leaving this burning and going to another room to sleep. I have been sleeping on the couch and waking up often, just to use a flashlight to see where the temps were.

Can my wood be too dry? I have used a moisture meter and some of is down to 10-11%. I have a mixture of ash, elm and maple with a little bit of cherry.

Also, there is no way I could load the box with all ash. I tried it before (once) and it scared the heck out of me,

Hope I made some sense with my rambling.

Many thanks in advance

 

[NinjaTech]

What insert is this? Can't help without details. Also, where are you measuring 450 at on it, and with a magnetic thermometer or IR gun?

 

[maple1]

450 measured where, how & with what?

Pics of setup might help.

 

[BrotherBart]

What insert is this?

Buck 91.

 

[jeff_t]

Is it new? New cats can be pretty reactive, and get hot quickly. At least mine was. It settled down after a few weeks.

@Woody Stover?

 

[NinjaTech]

Buck 91.

For a few moments I thought you had gained telepathic powers, then realized that I'm just blind and did read the signature..

Still need to know where that temp is being measured at, if its on the front face of the insert that may be a normal temperature for that area. Most of the surface of mine thats 'before' the cat runs in the 450-500 range normally. The area that's PAST the cat does run hotter. So it really depends on what area you are measuring.

 

[crater22]

Thanks guy's. Woody and I are almost good friends since he replies to all my stupid questions and I follow his instructions to the letter. I just cant get it right.

Anyway, I am measuring on the front of the Buck wright nest to the cat probe handle with a IR Thermo...

Forgot to say, that the other day, after starting from a cold start, the secondaries started while the cat was wide open and only reading 400, way before the active temp of 600. Could my cat be wrong?

 

[Woody Stover]

The highest temp from the insert I have been able to get is 450, BUT the cat was reading 1800. At that point I start getting nervous and start shutting it down. When I do that, of course the insert temp goes down. I cannot get a long burn since when I pack the box it gets hotter faster and causes me to keep an eye on it and constantly adjusting it....can my wood be too dry? I have used a moisture meter and some of is down to 10-11%. I have a mixture of ash, elm and maple with a little bit of cherry. Also, there is no way I could load the box with all ash. I tried it before (once) and it scared the heck out of me

When you checked the moisture content of your wood, did you re-split the splits and test in the middle of the freshly-exposed surface? Those wood types will gas a bit quicker than Hickory or BL, especially if it is soft Maple. In that case, try to get the stove cruising with less wood gassing. I'm guessing you are starting with a fairly cold stove, if you're not loading it very full the night before. Unless the probe is 600+, I'll just throw in a few small splits and get the probe to about 700 and have some coals, then load with the coals pulled to the center, in front of the doghouse. That way I don't get too much of the load burning and gassing trying to get stove temp up. After I load, I use some shotgun air to get the load burning mainly in the middle. I'll leave the middle kind of open, where flame heat can get to the top of the box. When stove temps recover to 700+, I'll close the bypass, run with some flame in the box, and the probe will start to rise steadily in a few minutes. I adjust the air down a little as the cat starts to glow, then set the air for cruise once the cat is glowing good. Cruise air is left slider (shotgun, doghouse) closed, right slider open maybe 1/8". Stove will usually cruise under 1600 probe, with stove temp 450+ and tossing good heat.
Where do you have your air sliders set when you want to cruise? It sounds like you might be leaving the air too far open, and too much of the load gets gassing, sending cat temps high. Hard to say what is happening without being there; The more you can describe and detail how you are operating the stove, the better chance we will have to spot something that might be causing issues.

 

[TheRambler]

I dont have a buck nor ever used one or seen this stove, but a 1800 cat temp is nothing to be concerned about. Especially on a new cat. 1800 is hot, but not anywhere near too hot for a cat.

 

[Woody Stover]

1800 cat temp is nothing to be concerned about. Especially on a new cat. 1800 is hot, but not anywhere near too hot for a cat.

I just pulled a 2 yr. old cat out of my SIL's Dutchwest, which had some air leaks before I re-sealed it, and I think it ran hot quite a bit. Ceramic was in great shape but the cat looked completely white, like all the wash coat had been burned off. It would eventually light at some time during the burn, but I don't think it stayed engaged for very long. I like to see my cats run under 1500. It's probably like most other things; Run 'em hard, and they won't last as long. http://firecatcombustors.blogspot.com/2008/12/catalytic-combustor-temperature-ranges.html

 

[TheRambler]

I just pulled a 2 yr. old cat out of my SIL's Dutchwest, which had some air leaks before I re-sealed it, and I think it ran hot quite a bit. Ceramic was in great shape but the cat looked completely white, like all the wash coat had been burned off. It would eventually light at some time during the burn, but I don't think it stayed engaged for very long. I like to see my cats run under 1500. It's probably like most other things; Run 'em hard, and they won't last as long. http://firecatcombustors.blogspot.com/2008/12/catalytic-combustor-temperature-ranges.html

I agree to a point, though running a new cat initially at around 1800 isnt going to harm it. Your not actually doing harm to the catalyst material until you start approaching 2000F. Like I said, 1800 is hot, but not "too hot". Wouldn't recommend running there as a norm, but it is VERY common for a brand new cat to get up to 1800ish. In fact, if a brand new cat doesnt get up to around 1800 then its probably got some manufacturing issues. After a couple weeks of use you should see it peak at 1650ish, and over time will slowly go down from there. When they are still "new" the cats are very reactive and will peak and much higher temps than one will normally ever see again after a few weeks of initial use.

 

[crater22]

When you checked the moisture content of your wood, did you re-split the splits and test in the middle of the freshly-exposed surface? Those wood types will gas a bit quicker than Hickory or BL, especially if it is soft Maple. In that case, try to get the stove cruising with less wood gassing. I'm guessing you are starting with a fairly cold stove, if you're not loading it very full the night before. Unless the probe is 600+, I'll just throw in a few small splits and get the probe to about 700 and have some coals, then load with the coals pulled to the center, in front of the doghouse. That way I don't get too much of the load burning and gassing trying to get stove temp up. After I load, I use some shotgun air to get the load burning mainly in the middle. I'll leave the middle kind of open, where flame heat can get to the top of the box. When stove temps recover to 700+, I'll close the bypass, run with some flame in the box, and the probe will start to rise steadily in a few minutes. I adjust the air down a little as the cat starts to glow, then set the air for cruise once the cat is glowing good. Cruise air is left slider (shotgun, doghouse) closed, right slider open maybe 1/8". Stove will usually cruise under 1600 probe, with stove temp 450+ and tossing good heat.
Where do you have your air sliders set when you want to cruise? It sounds like you might be leaving the air too far open, and too much of the load gets gassing, sending cat temps high. Hard to say what is happening without being there; The more you can describe and detail how you are operating the stove, the better chance we will have to spot something that might be causing issues.

Woody and others, thanks for all the info. I will let you know tmrw my usual burning procedures, but right now I am fighting a good old cold, and under the covers.

However, if I could in the mean time ask another question. Since it was actual temps today of -20 I decided not to try and get a fire going, but decided to clean out the inside. I noticed the sides and top of the insert were covered with creosote. I know I have not been burning the fire hot enough but I was wonder would something like a creosote remover log help me break down the creosote inside the insert? I have a SS liner and will have that swept as soon as I can find some one to come out in this weather. If I can burn one of the logs, what would be the recommended way of burning it. Cat open or Cat closed.

Thanks guy's you are the best. Post more later when the fever breaks and I quite sneezing/coughing......Might be June or July.LOL

 

[Woody Stover]

The manual is very specific about what can be safely burned in a cat stove and I never burn anything in my cat stoves except cord wood, and an occasional SuperCedar (cedar chips and paraffin.) I even saw in a VC manual where they didn't want you to burn "wax" in the stove, so that would exclude SuperCedars... I would stay far away from the creosote log, or anything else that isn't actual firewood. You're going to have some creosote in the box, since the fire is smoldering there. Once that smoke gets burned in the cat, there won't be much of anything to be deposited in the chimney liner. I don't worry much about the creo in the box, but I will scrape some of it off with a putty knife if I let the stove go cold on a warm day.
I hope you don't have this brutal cold that I'm getting over now. It's been about 3 weeks. For a couple days there, my oxygen uptake was so limited by lung congestion that walking up an incline would make me short of breath. I haven't been able to hear out of my left ear for a week. Worst cold I've ever had!