What do I do with my oil now?

[Bad Wolf]

Now that I'm up and running with the Tarm excel and storage, my plan is to never run the oil backup again except when I'm away. My DHW sill come off of the solar panels in the summer and shoulder seasons. I still have 3/8 of a tank from this summer. How long will it keep? Should I add anything to it? I mean 5-10 years from now I hopefully will still have the same oil. I don't want to get rid of it or burn it all up because I do like having it for backup in case I go away or can't get home in time to keep things from freezing.

Greg H
TARM Excel 2000
1200 unpressurized storage
6 solar panels (under construction)

 

[Eric Johnson]

Oil keeps pretty well, from what I understand. Don't worry about it. Maybe change the filter so that next time you need it, you'll be sure to have clean oil.

 

[muncybob]

I recently spoke with somebody that has a Tarm oil/wood boiler that was in his house 6 years ago when he bought the property. The oil tank was just over 1/2 full and is still 1/4 full...no problems with the oil at all.

 

[pybyr]

#2 fuel oil is pretty near identical to diesel, except for the dye which gives it away as not having been taxed for road use

there are, believe it or not, microbes which can get into and degrade the fuel under some conditions - sometimes apparently producing a gelatinous goo which can really clog filters & etc

there are products that you can buy- check out a truck stop or an auto parts store that serves heavy trucks- that contain a biocide and stabilizer to prevent this

I plan to get some of that stuff and throw and mix it in my oil tank once I get my new wood system up and rolling

different people can and do debate how much of a worry this is or what causes the problem; in my case, just like I want to keep the oil as a fall-back, I want to err on the side of making sure it's still good if/ when I need it, however long from now.

 

[Jim K in PA]

My personal experience and research concurs with Trevor's comments. When I bought my house in 2002, there was 3/4 of a tank of oil in the basement, but it had been there for at least 5 years. The P.O. had used wood stoves and a coal stoker for most of that time. When we moved in, we had the oil burner serviced immediately. The tech found that microbial goo in the filter housing. He added some biocide to the tank, and flushed out as much as he could.

Oil can deteriorate if the bacteria are in your tank. They get in through the vent stack. Treating it now can delay it, but I will be getting rid of my oil backup and adding a propane fired backup system. Propane has an essentially infinite shelf life (just maintain the burner unit).

FWIW, look for someone selling a used propane fired pool heater. I got one for free (150k Btuh). That is what I will have for my emergencies and/or when I am not home to fire my GARN. My PH will heat the GARN through an HX, so everything will be protected.

 

[JustWood]

My dad got rid of his big tank and got a small 40 gallon after he hooked up his CB furnace just for this reason. He now goes to the truck stop and gets 30-40 gallon at a time in cans if need be. He always has a few extra filters and a couple bottles of biocide (Power Service I think)on hand. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Thanks for the input. I changed out the filter when I had the tech (my brother) set up the oil burner. The Excel is a dual fuel unit with a integral oil burner. A smaller tank is an idea, and would freeup some space in my basement. Even in the dead of winter a hundred gallons would last me weeks does anyone sell a tank smaller than 275?

 

[Jim K in PA]

Oil can deteriorate if the bacteria are in your tank. They get in through the vent stack. Treating it now can delay it, but I will be getting rid of my oil backup and adding a propane fired backup system. Propane has an essentially infinite shelf life (just maintain the burner unit).

Ayuh,...
I have to Disagree with that....

If the Bugs get into the oil, they can be killed,+ filtered out...
On ocean going ships,.. This is known as "Fuel Polishing"...

I have recovered Diesel Fuel, which is the Same Exact oil, from old fuel tanks off Trucks...
1 of them had been parked for Over 20 years...
I drained that fuel, filtered it,+ ran it in my pickup,.... No Problem....

If you treat the oil in your tank,...
Your Great-Grandchildren will be able to stay warm with it...

I think we are splitting hairs here, Bondo. I also think you got lucky. My full post actually described "fuel polishing", wherein my oil man treated the bacteria, and filtered/drained out what he could of the slime. Ocean going ships have MUCH larger filter capacity than HHO setups, and therefore can more readily deal with the problem. The bacteria also attacks jet fuel in plane and helicopter tanks (a much bigger problem results if it does). As the bateria consume the petro, they produce a slime that will clog small inline filters and screens, and of course burner & turbine nozzles. I also suspect that the biocide will have a limited life, and retreatment will be necessary. Of course, this all depends on IF the bacteria can get into your tank, or IF they are already in the delivery company truck's tank.

The question is, how do you know IF or WHEN the bacteria have set up house? I dont want to find out after I get home from a week away in January to find a frozen house and GARN.

Just my $.02

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

The question is, how do you know IF or WHEN the bacteria have set up house? I dont want to find out after I get home from a week away in January to find a frozen house and GARN.

Drain some oil off the bottom of the tank. Red and transparent is good. Black and opaque is bad.

Joe

 

[Jim K in PA]

The question is, how do you know IF or WHEN the bacteria have set up house? I dont want to find out after I get home from a week away in January to find a frozen house and GARN.

Drain some oil off the bottom of the tank. Red and transparent is good. Black and opaque is bad.

Joe

Good suggestion, as long as the baceria and slime have reached the point where you are draining it from.

Here is a link to a good description of the process, but note that it is from a company that sells the biocide treatment: (broken link removed to http://www.turbotect.com/product6.shtml)

No mention as to the duration of it's effectiveness or need for retreatment.

Apparently water is the key to getting the bacteria active.

 

[free75degrees]

Maybe we should all add HXs to our oil tanks. Then we can use them for added heat storage and the heat would kill the bacteria!

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

Good suggestion, as long as the baceria and slime have reached the point where you are draining it from.

Yup. That's why you'd have to do it periodically. That's also why modern tanks have the bottom tapping on the bottom, not low on the end - theoretically, the water will be drained, first.

Apparently water is the key to getting the bacteria active.

Water is, indeed, the key. The critters live at the water/oil interface.

You can dip the tank for water, if you have the water detector paste (smear a little of the paste on the end of a stick, and slide it down into the tank - it changes color if there is water present, allowing you to also measure the water depth.

Maybe we should all add HXs to our oil tanks. Then we can use them for added heat storage and the heat would kill the bacteria!

If you just heat it a little, you'd speed up the growth. If you heat it a lot, you'd kill the critters, but cook off the volatiles from the oil, creating a lot of toxic/flammable fumes.

Joe

 

[free75degrees]

If you just heat it a little, you'd speed up the growth. If you heat it a lot, you'd kill the critters, but cook off the volatiles from the oil, creating a lot of toxic/flammable fumes.
Joe

Sorry, I forgot to mention in my plan that it needs to be pressurized to hold in all the volatiles ;^)

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

With Propane, you're at the mercy of the man driving the delivery truck,...
Scabbing in a 20lb. tank to get you through the night, or however long, is Alot more work,+ unnecessary effort than running down to the local truckstop, or convenience store to grab 5gal. of oil in a gas can...

I have nothing against Propane,...
My cooking stove,+ dryer are gas,.. And I used it almost daily with my work,... It has advantages for some applications...
But,..
Around here,.. The Only thing More expensive to heat with than Propane,.... is Electricity...
And I'll freeze before I heat with either 1...

As far as my being Lucky,...
I've been breathing Diesel fumes for nearly 40 years,...
As BHTech noted above,... Knowing what you're lookin' at Helps,... Even raw #2, without the dye, the sludge is Noticable..
When you see it in the fuel filter, during your annual pre-season service,..
You treat the tank, change the filter,+ Life is Good...

The question isn't whether oil can be stored, or whether propane is more expensive per gallon than oil...

The question is whether oil + treatment is a better option than propane. There's no single answer to that question - adding treatment to the oil certainly eats up some of the price difference, and it's an ongoing cost. Propane is more expensive, but it's a one-time purchase. Of course, if you are going years between fill-ups, and you have a leased propane tank, they may want to charge rent for the tank.

It will depend, for the most part, upon how many gallons you actually use per year. If you have backup for emergencies only, and essentially never use it, then propane is almost certainly the way to go. If you do occasionally go away for a few days at a time, multiple times per year, you may be better with one or the other. If you run wood during the winter only, oil may well be the cheapest way to handle your summer domestic hot water load (particularly with a tankless water heater).

If you are sticking with oil, the suggestion of downsizing the tank is a good one - less oil to keep treated.

Joe

 

[Bad Wolf]

Thanks Joe
I guess the way I'll go is to keep my existing tank (no additional cost), Treat what I have, (about 100 gallons left) use it occasionally, couple of time a year. Solar will handle my summer DHW. Maybe next year if I can find a smaller tank I'll drain the remaining fuel.

For adding the biocide since I'm not getting anymore fuel I thought I'd add it to 5-10 gallons of diesel and pour it into the tank.

 

[JustWood]

Thanks for the input. I changed out the filter when I had the tech (my brother) set up the oil burner. The Excel is a dual fuel unit with a integral oil burner. A smaller tank is an idea, and would freeup some space in my basement. Even in the dead of winter a hundred gallons would last me weeks does anyone sell a tank smaller than 275?

I think my dad got his tank from a junked out tractor. Most big truck fuel tanks are around 75-150 gallons. They wood work well and aluminum wood last forever.

 

[Jim K in PA]

I think we are splitting hairs here, Bondo.

Ayuh,...
I guess I'd rather split hairs than your blanket statements that Oil just Doesn't Keep,+ needs to be discarded...

Ayuhhhhh, no - I didn't say that. Re-read my post. I only stated what I was going to do.

Propane has an essentially infinite shelf life

#2 fuel oil(as well as #1 oil) will also keep indefinitely, if properly stored....
In other words,... Water Free..[/quote]

I agree, but that can be rather difficult with a vented tank.

With Propane, you're at the mercy of the man driving the delivery truck,...
Scabbing in a 20lb. tank to get you through the night, or however long, is Alot more work,+ unnecessary effort than running down to the local truckstop, or convenience store to grab 5gal. of oil in a gas can...

I also agree with this, but that is not the situation the original poster or I was talking about.

I have nothing against Propane,...
My cooking stove,+ dryer are gas,.. And I used it almost daily with my work,... It has advantages for some applications...
But,..
Around here,.. The Only thing More expensive to heat with than Propane,.... is Electricity...
And I'll freeze before I heat with either 1...

Down here in NE PA, it's not quite that bad (propane is running about 10 cents less/gallon than HHO), and I heated, cooked, washed and dried with propane in a 2500 sq ft. house for 11 years.

As far as my being Lucky,...
I've been breathing Diesel fumes for nearly 40 years,...

You too? Really?

As BHTech noted above,... Knowing what you're lookin' at Helps,... Even raw #2, without the dye, the sludge is Noticable..
When you see it in the fuel filter, during your annual pre-season service,..
You treat the tank, change the filter,+ Life is Good...

Yep, we each find our way in life, and sometimes those ways are different.

:coolhmm: