What I've learned about coal

[Millworker]

My wife and I bought a farm house recently. The house has an Arrow coal stove; the outbuilding had a large pile of anthracite coal that the seller used as a bargaining point ("....and you can even have the coal!"). I felt fortunate that I was getting a nice pile of coal with the deal.

Here is what I have since learned about coal (and yes I have read the tutorials on how to build a coal fire):

1.) If there is ever a fire in the house and I can't fine a fire extinguisher, throw coal on it.

2.) If my WOOD fire is too hot, and my damper is stuck full open, throw coal on it. The fire will go out immediately

3.) If I ever feel the need to waste a whole bunch of wood, I can burn coal, which requires a huge amount of wood just to get going. A side benefit is that the fire needs to be so hot that it will strip paint from walls.

4.) If I ever need a large amount of small pieces of white unburnt coal, I can collect all I need from my ash pan of my stove after burning coal

5.) If I have a need for ash that can't be used in my compost bin because it is toxic, but I CAN use it to build a road, I will burn coal.

6.) If I want to impress friends by showing them how I can make the needle on my stove-pipe stack go from 600 to 200 in 30 seconds I can shovel coal into the fire

7.) If I want to wake up in the middle of the night shivering, I will burn coal.

8.) If I want to be covered in coal dust, I will go out to my pile of coal and dig in.

9.) If I ever have the need to feel jealous I can look at my neighbors smoking chimneys, from their nice hot wood fire.

10.) If I ever feel the need to build a fire that requires "shaking," I will burn coal.

Now, anyone care to tell me I am misguided, and that burning coal is better than burning wood? And am I not interested in having pride that I spent years developing the perfect technique, and that I have a 10 page manual with explicit instructions on how to build and maintain a coal fire. I just want to be warm.

 

[begreen]

Good summary and funny. What is the size of the coal? Can you describe it? Sometimes this is a matter of having the right coal for the right stove.

In the meantime, calling Corie to the coal bin. We have a cold cat that wants to be hot.

 

[mtarbert]

Yeah, Coal is terrible. If you want ....I will haul it away for Free....

 

[Corie]

Either the stove is at fault here, or and no offense, but its user error.


I have NEVER had nearly the problems you've had in the four coal stoves I've operated in both my own house and in the homes of others. Quite frankly, it sounds like you're either doing it wrong, have a stove that isn't truly meant to burn coal, terrible draft in the chimney, or???????????????


Can you post some pictures of the stove, and describe your method for initiating a coal fire? Perhaps that's a good place to start from.

 

[JayD]

Burn that coal I wish my house came with Coal. Do you have a coal stove?

 

[Millworker]

Thank you all for taking my whining and turning it into something productive. The coal ranges in size from the size of a grape up to the size of a small lemon. I believe it is anthracite coal, when I run a Google image search the images that come up look exactly like what I have. Most likely, I am not doing something correct. The stove draws very well (the stack runs up through the center of the house).

This is how *try to* build a coal fire. The damper is open all the way, and often I have the ash pan door cracked open during all of these steps:

1.) Go to outbuilding and sift coal through a screen I built to remove any dirt/dust that has settled on coal
2.) Fill coal bucket with screened coal and bring inside to warm up by the stove
3.) Build wood fire and allow to burn anywhere from 30 minuted up to 3 hours until stove is running at about 600F and nice wood coal bed is established
4.) When I feel the conditions are good, I will add 1 layer of coal. There HAS to be wood still burning at this point, and I have to be careful not to smother that wood flame, or the fire's over.
5.) Allow the 1st layer of coal to "catch," or start glowing red and emitting a blue flame (at this point temp. goes from 600F to 400F)
6.) Load 3 - 4" of coal (temp drops maybe another 100F)
7.) Hold breath and pray for blue flames (has happened once)
8.) Assuming I was successful with step 7, when coals have burned down (3 hours?) re-load another 3" coal

After step 8 I have never kept a coal fire burning.

 

[ansehnlich1]

1.) Go to outbuilding and sift coal through a screen I built to remove any dirt/dust that has settled on coal
2.) Fill coal bucket with screened coal and bring inside to warm up by the stove
3.) Build wood fire and allow to burn anywhere from 30 minuted up to 3 hours until stove is running at about 600F and nice wood coal bed is established
4.) When I feel the conditions are good, I will add 1 layer of coal. There HAS to be wood still burning at this point, and I have to be careful not to smother that wood flame, or the fire's over.
5.) Allow the 1st layer of coal to "catch," or start glowing red and emitting a blue flame (at this point temp. goes from 600F to 400F)
6.) Load 3 - 4" of coal (temp drops maybe another 100F)
7.) Hold breath and pray for blue flames (has happened once)
8.) Assuming I was successful with step 7, when coals have burned down (3 hours?) re-load another 3" coal

After step 8 I have never kept a coal fire burning.

Hey everything sounds good to me in your steps here. I would think maybe you are rushing things a bit between step 5 and step 6. Wait til that coal gets firing real good there, and when you add coal in step 6, leave a "hot spot" in the center front, meaning, bank that coal around the back and sides leaving that bright orange flame going in the middle front. Also, hope you are leaving the air wide open at this point too, cuz that's important. When you finally get the firebox filled up with coal, and it's going real good, then you can adjust your air down.

Remember, coal is like a freight train, takes a while to get 'er going but once she's up to speed look out!

Now, when you reload, you gotta open that air up first, get 'er going again. Then shake her down. Shake those grates 'til you see small bright embers coming out into the ashpan, then stop. Then repeat your load process starting at #4 there. Always have a good hot coal fire burnin before adding coal. Always leave a "hot spot" when adding.

Coal ain't like wood. I'd have a simmerin' coal fire at times that was damped down, and I'd open the bottom door, and wait sometimes 20 minutes or a half hour before the coal bed would be burning real good to add more. NEVER, NEVER, leave that stove with the ash door open, or the air ducts open fully! Coal will look like it ain't burnin', then after some time, it'll be ragin'

If you can see orange down through the coal piled up in there, give 'er plenty of air and wait a spell, it'll eventually grab ahold and start burning, ain't as fast as wood though.

ex-coal burner

 

[Mike Wilson]

For a n00b, you are hysterically funny. It's just too bad that you don't know how to burn coal.

I vote we let the n00b stay. Someone come on and teach him how to burn coal... that way he'll be both warm and happy.

-- Mike

 

[Millworker]

Sometimes you can learn a lot from a n00b. Here's what I have learned about burning wood.

1.) Place crumpled up paper and kindling in the firebox
2.) Light with match and wait 10 minutes
3.) Add wood
4). Sit back, get warm, and enjoy

I bought 1 1/4 cord of oak from an Amish farm today for $120.

The only reason *I* can think of for not selling my pile of coal to somebody, and sticking with wood is that the back of my stove claims it is a Federal offense to burn anything other than coal in it.

The irony in that statement is that it is impossible to start a coal fire without adding wood!

Challenge?

 

[ansehnlich1]

Millworker, I don't know, I had a Baker Toastmaster, burned some wood in it, and didn't get sent to prison, but honestly, a coal stove don't do justice to burnin' wood nowadays, I mean, it'll burn it for sure, but you'll likely use more than if you had an honest to goodness wood stove.

Anyway, that Toastmaster, I'd get a 24, yep, you read that right, a 24 hour burn out of it when temps were 35+, and an easy 12 hour burn when it was however cold winter wanted to get ........ used to say to my wife " How hot you want it in here"?

Anyway, you do what you want, but my hunch is if you'd learn how to burn coal in that thing it'd blow you outta there

 

[Mike Wilson]

If you're going to burn wood, get a wood stove. The difference between burning splits in a coal stove, and burning splits in an EPA wood stove is more than significant. You'll easily half the amount of wood you burn, and increase heat output at the same time. Interestingly, most "what would I switch to" posts I read are from wood burners who have discovered coal, and won't ever go back. Think about it, even if it's a hand fired stove, you only tend it, at most, twice per day. The heat output is amazing, and it is more consistent. I would ask questions on the NEPA Coal forum. They are to coal as we are to wood, and there are more than enough experts there to help you along.

-- Mike

 

[Corie]

Yeah, when you go to add that first layer of coal, the first thing I do is open the ash pan door (I know, I know, fire hazard, safety concern) and then throw the coal in. Leave that ash pan door open until the entire bed is caught and THEN set the air control to the heat output you need. Also, if you're doing it right, you won't have to light the coal fire but once or twice a year anyway.

-Corie

 

[Corie]

Whoa whoa whoa. I just reread what you wrote. You're only getting 3 hours from a full stove of coal? How many pounds of coal are you burning in three hours?

 

[Millworker]

I would be thrilled if I could have a coal fire that only required re-loading once or twice a day and burned for many hours. It just ain't happening. Yet.

First, I can't leave the ash pan door open. The stove physically won't allow that. For the ash pan door to be open, the door to the firebox has to be open. Maybe it's a safety mechanism? So, that leaves me with the air inlets in the ash pan door as my only control over air flow.

As for the amount of coal I am adding, the first load is about 15 lbs.

The few times I have had a coal fire going (blue flames - almost looks like flames are burning above the coal) I have learned that I cannot close the air baffles at all. The fire goes out. Also, I can't add more coal to the coal fire. The fire goes out. I will try the technique that ansehnlich1 posted, which is to leave a "hot spot" when reloading coal.

Lastly, even when I did have a coal fire going it wasn't this raging hot fire ya'll are talking about. It was maybe 500F. At least that's what my stovepipe (10" above firebox) thermometer read.

 

[Corie]

No ash pan open eh? That's a not so neat safety feature. Kinda like the old self opening double barrel shotguns. Anyway.


15 lbs is probably too heavy for the initial load anyway. I usually go 1-2 shovels at most. Sprinkle it around gingerly and leave the air controls open. If need be, throw finger sized hardwood splits on top of the first layer of coal. Once the first layer is GLOWING red, making popping noises and otherwise looking like a smelting furnace, add another 1-2 shovels. Again, if the fire seems to want to die out, add a few more hard kindling splits. Do this one more time. At this point, you should have one thin layer covering the entire grate area that is absolutely glowing red hot. I'm talking HOT!.

Now add that 15 lbs. Air control fully open, patiently wait for this entire load to catch with the same ferocity as the first layer. Once it does, you're basically ready for the full load, but because of your problems, I'd say add another 15 lbs first and let it catch HARD. Once it does, go ahead and fill the stove completely full of coal. If it's firebrick lined, coal should fill the stove to the top of the firebricks, sloping up from the front door back. Use the flat side of your shovel to level and flatten out the coal bed, but do NOT tamp it down at all. Keep the air control fully open until you see the top layer of the full stove stating to glow and the blue flames should be dancing everywhere, perhaps even yellow flames at this point.

THEN set the air control for the heat output you need. The coal will continue to be very active for a while and then will settle in at the air setting you put in.

Also, your stovepipe thermometer at 500 deg. F is HOT for coal stack temps. Very hot in fact. Put the magnetic thermometer on the stove top. Flue gases with coal are inherently cooler than wood because coal burns more efficiently in the stove and thus less heat is lost up the chimney.

 

[Corie]

Also, do you understand the shaking procedure that you'll have to do when you reload the stove with a fresh load of coal? This is a very important step as well.

 

[berlin]

if your taking your temps at the stovepipe that is a problem because it tells you nothing as corie has said. be it bituminous or anthricite, coal exhaust gas temps (egt's) are far lower than wood. my stovetop will hit 800º F with only a 200-300º F stack temp six inches from the stove collar. with wood, in the same stove, i'm running 800 with about 600º stack temp.

 

[Millworker]

Okay. I will do as you say. If this doesn't work I am going to switch my pile of coal for my neighbor's stack of wood during the night and pretend like I don't know what he is talking about when he accuses me of stealing his wood.

I will report back the progress later.

 

[Millworker]

I've read up on the shaking procedure, but frankly I haven't yet been in a position to have to do it. Instead of shaking, I am usually shoveling unburnt coal out of the firebox.

If you are up for giving tips on shaking, I will do as you say, hopefully I will be in a position to have to shake the stove later tonight.

 

[Millworker]

I guess I need to add a #11 to my initial list.

11.) If you want to melt your face off build a coal fire!!

Holy hot Batman, this fire is Blazin'! Seriously , it's like a sauna in here, I can't breathe! The wife is running
around naked.

It took about 3 hours to build. That's probably what I learned the most. This fire needs a LOT of time to build.
If you are not patient building a coal fire is like trying to herd cats.

Here are the boring details (thermometer now on top of stove):

3:30/550F - wood almost burned down, hearty WOOD coal bed; 2 shovels of coal sprinkled onto coals avoiding dwindling
wood embers
3:45/500F - most coals are glowing red; added 2 more shovels of coal
4:00/500F - all coals glowing red; added 2 more shovels of coal and 3 slivers of oak kindling
4:20/500F - Added 15lb coal + 2 slivers of oak
4:35/400F - blue dancing flames
4:45/500F - loaded 15lb coal leaving a "hot spot" in center
5:20/585F - Neighbors wondering why our house is glowing red
6:00/500F - opened stove door and eyebrows caught fire. stuffed stove with ~25lb coal, built ski slope and leveled off with shovel
6:30/600F - Crawled my way to stove, suffering from dehydration and heat exhaustion, adjusted air control downward

Now I will leave the fire alone until tomorrow morning? 6 AM? And the I shake down like ansehnlich1 describes?

"Now, when you reload, you gotta open that air up first, get ‘er going again. Then shake her down. Shake those grates
‘til you see small bright embers coming out into the ashpan, then stop. Then repeat your load process starting at #4 there.
Always have a good hot coal fire burnin before adding coal. Always leave a “hot spot” when adding."

I added 55lb of coal. 55 lb!

And the CO detector went up to 50 when I loaded the last 25lb. I opened the window and it quickly went back to 0,
but I hope that I can get quicker at loading , and this will not be an issue. Unless my mother-in-law is over, then
I will load REAL SLOOOOW like.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Unless my mother-in-law is over, then I will load REAL SLOOOOW like.

:lol:

Glad to hear you're mastering coal...

(wife in the background: Mom... mom... wake up mom it's almost dinner time... Oh, it must be the heat making her sleepy, how nice.)

-- Mike

 

[Corie]

There ya go bud! Now you've got it!



Yep, in the AM, open the air control fully and let the coal that's left burning get back up to "smelting" temperature. Once it is, shake those grates down. Use good, short choppy purposeful strokes. Don't be gentle with it, you're trying to get the ash out of the coal bed and off of the burning coal. Once you shake her down, assuming you still have a good amount of glowing red coal left, you can just reload it full and leave the ash pan open. As I've said previously though, since you've had problems you MAY want to reload half, let it catch and then reload the other half. Then set the air control and leave her be for another 12 hours.


Like was previously mentioned, shake until small red embers are falling through the grates. Since you can't have the ash pan door open with the load door closed, you'll have to shake and then peer into the ash pan to check that small red embers are in it. You'll quickly learn exactly how much shaking it takes based on how much of the fire is left. Sometimes you can overshake and lose the fire. Other times, under shaking can give you a dull, slow burning coal bed without much heat output (which is good if its warm and you're trying to run a maintenance fire.

 

[stick burner]

I guess I need to add a #11 to my initial list.

11.) If you want to melt your face off build a coal fire!!

Holy hot Batman, this fire is Blazin'! Seriously , it's like a sauna in here, I can't breathe! The wife is running
around naked.

It took about 3 hours to build. That's probably what I learned the most. This fire needs a LOT of time to build.
If you are not patient building a coal fire is like trying to herd cats.

Here are the boring details (thermometer now on top of stove):

3:30/550F - wood almost burned down, hearty WOOD coal bed; 2 shovels of coal sprinkled onto coals avoiding dwindling
wood embers
3:45/500F - most coals are glowing red; added 2 more shovels of coal
4:00/500F - all coals glowing red; added 2 more shovels of coal and 3 slivers of oak kindling
4:20/500F - Added 15lb coal + 2 slivers of oak
4:35/400F - blue dancing flames
4:45/500F - loaded 15lb coal leaving a "hot spot" in center
5:20/585F - Neighbors wondering why our house is glowing red
6:00/500F - opened stove door and eyebrows caught fire. stuffed stove with ~25lb coal, built ski slope and leveled off with shovel
6:30/600F - Crawled my way to stove, suffering from dehydration and heat exhaustion, adjusted air control downward

Now I will leave the fire alone until tomorrow morning? 6 AM? And the I shake down like ansehnlich1 describes?

"Now, when you reload, you gotta open that air up first, get ‘er going again. Then shake her down. Shake those grates
‘til you see small bright embers coming out into the ashpan, then stop. Then repeat your load process starting at #4 there.
Always have a good hot coal fire burnin before adding coal. Always leave a “hot spot” when adding."

I added 55lb of coal. 55 lb!

And the CO detector went up to 50 when I loaded the last 25lb. I opened the window and it quickly went back to 0,
but I hope that I can get quicker at loading , and this will not be an issue. Unless my mother-in-law is over, then
I will load REAL SLOOOOW like.

I love a happy ending. If Corie tells you a chicken dips snuff, just look under its wing.

Stickburner

 

[Corie]

I know one thing Stickburner, the turkey typing on the computer right now dips snuff.

 

[berlin]

also, make that coal bed DEEP as deep as you can get it once you have a fire going, unlike wood it's not going to produce any creosote, so adjust the heat output with the air, not fuel.