My T-stat is at 2, the CAT is at 1350 and slowly dropping, the probe is at 450, and I stuck the mag. thermo. below that- it's only 175 on the surface of the double wall pipe. I checked my stack, and I'm starting to get some deposit on the interior. I will play with the T-stat, get the temps. up a bit, but has anyone else had this happen?
What temp. do you trust?
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Yeh
This warm spell I started having some build up.
When it was -10 to 10 °f, everything was clean, the glass was clean, inside the stove was clean. Stack OK.
I changed my burns;
I burn smaller fire, 1/2 the wood for overnight on 2.25, then wide open in the AM to burn the coals hot as they'd get for 3 hours or so, that helped clean things up allot.
Daytime 3 big splits E/W on about 2.5 for 4 - 6 hour then max open again till the night load.
I was getting ready to do a good hot burn(& open some windows) or No burn, before it built up in the stack much,
(which it may not in the stack, with the cat, I'm still learning how that all works. Those cooler burns, the cat may pass more smoke thru, I'm not sure on that one yet)
But it's cooling down again (around 12°f now) & I'll be burning hotter.
This warm spell I started having some build up.
When it was -10 to 10 °f, everything was clean, the glass was clean, inside the stove was clean. Stack OK.
I changed my burns;
I burn smaller fire, 1/2 the wood for overnight on 2.25, then wide open in the AM to burn the coals hot as they'd get for 3 hours or so, that helped clean things up allot.
Daytime 3 big splits E/W on about 2.5 for 4 - 6 hour then max open again till the night load.
I was getting ready to do a good hot burn(& open some windows) or No burn, before it built up in the stack much,
(which it may not in the stack, with the cat, I'm still learning how that all works. Those cooler burns, the cat may pass more smoke thru, I'm not sure on that one yet)
But it's cooling down again (around 12°f now) & I'll be burning hotter.
That made no sense. My outdoor temps. have been great, 30-40 during the day so I've been keeping the T-stat at around 2 during the day. I checked the stack last weekend, and again tonight. I have a noticable buildup in the last few days. I really adjust my T-stat by the probe, I am wondering if it's faulty. I have read about Pen's testing, and the temp. discrepency in actual readings. I think I need to run with the bypass open for quite awhile, help clean the flue, as opposed to closing the bypass when the CAT probe hits 600 or so. Hope that's better, I'm going to bed.
Edit-= BDave, you make sense, I posted after you did. Your situation is one I can use as reference towards my situation. Thanks, JB
Edit-= BDave, you make sense, I posted after you did. Your situation is one I can use as reference towards my situation. Thanks, JB
When I throw wood in the stove I will run it wide open for 15-20 mins, then kick it down to #2 for about the same time, then I close it down to low (straight up and down). Seems to work well to keep the glass fairly clean.
Are you getting it at the top of the stack or down near the stove? I get some gunk in the cap if I don't burn the chunks and uglies off long enough before turning it down.
Yup, cap is getting pretty crapped up. I was able to break off quite a bit of creo from it. Looking down the first couple of feet of pipe, had some shiny creo on the walls of the pipe, and a bit of fluff. I'll scrub it this weekend.
Hmm, so much for clean cats running in mild temps. I would open up the air a bit and run shorter, hotter fires.
PS: The readings from a surface thermometer on a double-wall pipe are next to meaningless. There can be large variances by just moving the thermometer a foot.
PS: The readings from a surface thermometer on a double-wall pipe are next to meaningless. There can be large variances by just moving the thermometer a foot.
Only thing I can figure is maybe I've got an air leak somehwere in the Cat housing, and thats highly unlikely. It's gotta be me, I'm not doing something right.
Beetle-Kill said:
How about your wood? You're burning beetle-killed pine that's been seasoning up there in God's country, where the air is dry as a bone most of the season. How big are the splits you are using? Softwood that dry should be burned as large as will fit, there's only just so much a cat can accomplish. All it can do is to help combine the oxygen in the air with the smoke at a lower temperature than a non-cat needs. You still need excess oxygen for complete combustion. If you are making more smoke than you are providing combustion air for, there will be no place for the excess to go but up the pipe... even in a cat stove.
That just might explain it. I can't check the MC 'cause I don't know where the heck my MM is, dissappeared sometime last spring. I'm still burning last years splits, haven't even got into what I split this year. If this wood is outgassing fast, but I'm choking it down by having the T-stat too low, then that gas is just flowing through the Cat and not being burned up? Could this explain it?
BK cat model Op Manual
Page 40 - 42 have some trouble shooting with your problem & several solutions
to down load the cat/king manual click OM-KEJ1107 for several king models
(broken link removed to http://blazeking.com/manuals.html)
this copy is better than the one I got with the stove, (more info)
Page 40 - 42 have some trouble shooting with your problem & several solutions
to down load the cat/king manual click OM-KEJ1107 for several king models
(broken link removed to http://blazeking.com/manuals.html)
this copy is better than the one I got with the stove, (more info)
Beetle-Kill said:
Yup. A catalyst only lowers the activation energy (read "temperature" here) of a chemical reaction. The actual reaction going on is the combining of the hydrocarbons in your wood with the oxygen in the intake air. Look at oxygen as the other "fuel" in the stove and it makes it clearer. You can not possibly, under any circumstances, burn more smoke molecules that you have air to burn them with - cat stove, non-cat stove, or good ol' smoke dragon.
how many times a day are you playing with the t stat? i never have a problem with build up or cap getting clogged up even when buring some chunks. i do a good long burn in the beggining if there crappy. then i set the stat and dont dont touch for at least 12 hours or when its really cold i load 3 times a day. then i only set the stat once. playing with the t stat can cause to to burn unclean for a little bit.Beetle-Kill said:
BDave, thanks for the link, I'll read through it in a few.
BK- 3 parts of the fire triangle- fuel, heat, and oxygen. Check this out, read on...
Eco- I don't play with the T-stat. I load in the morning, turn it down before I leave for work. Get home, turn the T-stat up and break up the chunks to burn up before I load for the night. Then repeat.
Now get this, last night I loaded full N/S. After it got cranking, I set the T-stat to 2.25 or so and there she stayed until this morning. About 7 or so, I got ready to load for the day, but there was a lot of wood still in the box, so I tossed on 3 med. sized splits N/S. it was supposed to hit the mid-40's, so I didn't feel the need to load it full. The splits lit up quick as usual, so after about 20 min or so, I turned the T-stat down to about 1.75. Cat was probably about 1000 at that point.
I get home at about 6pm tonight, and the first thing I notice when out of the car was-"I smell smoke." Once in the house, off to the stove I go.I couldn't see any embers, so cranked the T-stat up to max. the fan was still on, but the cat was not quite 300, and stove top was less than 275. I opened the door to stir things up, and the smoke just rolled out. yes, the bypass was open by that point. And, those 3 splits I tossed in this morning- one was hardly consumed, the other two had burned but were still big chunks. once the air got to it, the rest in the box just went up. I have a ripping fire in there right now, off of wood I tossed in this morning. Soooo... does this sound like maybe my T-stat could be sticking/ faulty? People that report burning on a 1 setting, I don't think I could do this right now.
BK- 3 parts of the fire triangle- fuel, heat, and oxygen. Check this out, read on...
Eco- I don't play with the T-stat. I load in the morning, turn it down before I leave for work. Get home, turn the T-stat up and break up the chunks to burn up before I load for the night. Then repeat.
Now get this, last night I loaded full N/S. After it got cranking, I set the T-stat to 2.25 or so and there she stayed until this morning. About 7 or so, I got ready to load for the day, but there was a lot of wood still in the box, so I tossed on 3 med. sized splits N/S. it was supposed to hit the mid-40's, so I didn't feel the need to load it full. The splits lit up quick as usual, so after about 20 min or so, I turned the T-stat down to about 1.75. Cat was probably about 1000 at that point.
I get home at about 6pm tonight, and the first thing I notice when out of the car was-"I smell smoke." Once in the house, off to the stove I go.I couldn't see any embers, so cranked the T-stat up to max. the fan was still on, but the cat was not quite 300, and stove top was less than 275. I opened the door to stir things up, and the smoke just rolled out. yes, the bypass was open by that point. And, those 3 splits I tossed in this morning- one was hardly consumed, the other two had burned but were still big chunks. once the air got to it, the rest in the box just went up. I have a ripping fire in there right now, off of wood I tossed in this morning. Soooo... does this sound like maybe my T-stat could be sticking/ faulty? People that report burning on a 1 setting, I don't think I could do this right now.
Curious you weather right now,
When we get a serious "low" pressure area, I have to burn on higher setting to keep a draft going.
"High" pressure , just opposite, burn stat on lower setting.
Windy between changes, different setting there too.
I had the problem you just described, mine I thought, was the wood was not seasoned enough.
Mine burns well above 2.25, not so good on lower than that. Maybe my cat is getting plugged, I'll check next clean out time.
When we get a serious "low" pressure area, I have to burn on higher setting to keep a draft going.
"High" pressure , just opposite, burn stat on lower setting.
Windy between changes, different setting there too.
I had the problem you just described, mine I thought, was the wood was not seasoned enough.
Mine burns well above 2.25, not so good on lower than that. Maybe my cat is getting plugged, I'll check next clean out time.
I know my thermostat will lower the fire really well if turned down during a burn..but it's slow bringing it back up.
Kinda bugs me.
Kinda bugs me.
A faulty thermostat would certainly explain a lot of your problems.
Personally, I don't trust thermostats. Sometimes mine does just what it's supposed to, sometimes it lags so far behind that by the time it opens again it's too late to give the fire more air when it really needs it. I come down in the morning and the flap is wide open, but there's still lots of coals that should have burned off if the thermostat had opened in time. With my stove, I'm at the mercy of how hot the stove gets that cast mounting block during the course of the burn, and as we all know, each and every burn is different. There has to be a better way. I'm surprised that so many BK owners say theirs works perfectly. VC just never got it quite right IMO.
Personally, I don't trust thermostats. Sometimes mine does just what it's supposed to, sometimes it lags so far behind that by the time it opens again it's too late to give the fire more air when it really needs it. I come down in the morning and the flap is wide open, but there's still lots of coals that should have burned off if the thermostat had opened in time. With my stove, I'm at the mercy of how hot the stove gets that cast mounting block during the course of the burn, and as we all know, each and every burn is different. There has to be a better way. I'm surprised that so many BK owners say theirs works perfectly. VC just never got it quite right IMO.
yeah this is interesting, to say the least.
BDave, I didn't notice a problem until the temps. came up and I started running at the lower T-stat setting. I need to figure this out, 'cause I have no intention of running above the 2 setting in May. The main reason I bought this thing was the ability to run low, and do that clean.
I think I need to suck it up and yank the T-stat cover, see whats happening in there. If I'm lucky, the weather will hold and I won't have to turn on the furnace. I know me, once I'm into it, there will be something I have to mess with. warranty be damned
BDave, I didn't notice a problem until the temps. came up and I started running at the lower T-stat setting. I need to figure this out, 'cause I have no intention of running above the 2 setting in May. The main reason I bought this thing was the ability to run low, and do that clean.
I think I need to suck it up and yank the T-stat cover, see whats happening in there. If I'm lucky, the weather will hold and I won't have to turn on the furnace. I know me, once I'm into it, there will be something I have to mess with. warranty be damned
Beetle-Kill said:
I was thinking the same thing. open it up & watch it move,
A hair dryer/blower on it to see how fast it reacts. (if it reacts)
I'm going to check the cat too, if it is partially plugged, now mater how much air I give it, if it can't go thru the cat,
Well it won't pull any more in, than can go out thru the cat, (heat expands the air some, but it still has to all go thru the cat)
Only 1 year warranty on the stat.
6 years on the combustor, pro rated after 3 yrs
At some point I hope it will become the norm for epa stoves to be the majority and the majority of the public becomes educated and people wishing to sell less than seasoned firewood will be driven to change their habits since the new beasts can't chew through that crap like their predecessors.
Hell, at one point doctors wore robes that were covered in dried and nasty blood day in and day out. The thought then was the nastier the clothing the more experience and the better the surgeon. Thank god we moved on there, hopefully this trend in firewood will also.
Like many things, markets are driven by trends.
Not that I am for any additional legislation, but if there were a law saying that any new wood stove sold must come with 1 full cord of truly seasoned firewood, people would learn the difference from day 1 and this issue would be a thing of the past.
pen
Hell, at one point doctors wore robes that were covered in dried and nasty blood day in and day out. The thought then was the nastier the clothing the more experience and the better the surgeon. Thank god we moved on there, hopefully this trend in firewood will also.
Like many things, markets are driven by trends.
Not that I am for any additional legislation, but if there were a law saying that any new wood stove sold must come with 1 full cord of truly seasoned firewood, people would learn the difference from day 1 and this issue would be a thing of the past.
pen
BDave, check this out. Since I got home tonight, I have not closed the by-pass. I've kept the T-stat on full, and kept the door open against the latch. I've kept it this way for over 4 hours. After the initial fire burned down, I added two thin splits and let it rip. Later, two more. About 45 min. ago I added 1 more. I did this to roast the flue, try to get the buildup to dry up a bit. Got to just over 1200 at one point(oh yeah, I've been watching it like a hawk) anymore and I would have shut it down. Current temp., door cracked and bypass open- stove top is-430 °F , Cat is at 1200 °F , and flue probe is at 790 °F . The CAT is not glowing, hasn't over the past few hours, so it needs that air flow to be really active. I'm gonna add a few more splits to keep up the high flue temps, then engage the CAT. Worst case, I tried something.
Beetle-Kill said:
:ahhh: God I hope this is a spoof and I'm missing the joke. There are multiple system failures here.
With good wood, I can have my probe at 1200 in 15 minutes from loading on even a dull coal bed with dry wood 28 inches above the stove.
Burning a hot fire will not dry out creosote, it will catch it on fire. Burning hot fires with every load w/ good wood will prevent creosote. There are only 2 ways to remove bad creosote, burn it out or brush it out.
pen
Beetle-Kill said:
Sounds like a good plan, clean it out, a good "enema" ;-P
Keep us posted, I may give it a try, (if you're still around in a few hour to give a good report LOL
)I hear you, I'm gonna be up all night fo' sho'!
Pen- No joke on this one. I'm trusting your testing that the Condars read low. A side note- I closed the door, and in the space of 3-4 min., flue temp dropped from 1000 to 900. This with the T-stat on full-open. fire died a bit also.
Pen- No joke on this one. I'm trusting your testing that the Condars read low. A side note- I closed the door, and in the space of 3-4 min., flue temp dropped from 1000 to 900. This with the T-stat on full-open. fire died a bit also.
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