What to do w/ creosote?

[Gooserider]

Well, have had the VC Encore that replaced our old smoke dragon for a couple years now, and while I'm probably burning less wood, I can't say that it was as much of an improvement as I was hoping... It also has not done as good a job of keeping the chimney clean as I would have hoped...

Both last year and this year, when I cleaned after one winters burning, probably about 5 cords of mixed hardwoods, mostly well seasoned (HF moisture meter typically showed about 16%) I got enough creosote out of the chimney to mostly fill my 16 gallon shop vac.... Probably at least 60-80% was in the top 10 feet of my 25' chimney, which is the part that sticks out of the roof. This last part was so bad that initially I could not get my 6" poly brush up through the liner, I had to get a second 6" steel brush and trim the bristles on it down to a cone shape about 3" on the top and 5.5" on the bottom. After running that through (with difficulty) a couple of times, I could then get the poly brush through. (again with difficulty)

I'm sure I would benefit from trying to insulate the liner, but I'm not sure how - the chimney is clay tile lined with 8x8 tiles, and barely has room for the 6" SS flex liner. (How long do flex liners last anyway, this one is at least 15 years old, and I strongly suspect is original to the ~30 yr old house - but has only gotten heavy use for the last 3-4 years) Certainly it doesn't have room for a blanket liner, and I don't know if I'd even be able to do poured insulation unless it was really thin stuff...

However right now my main question is what, if anything I should do with the several gallons of black crunchy type creosote that I've got in the shop vac? It's supposedly unburned fuel, can I "reburn" it by adding small amounts at a time to the stove and get my heat back out of it?

If that doesn't work, does it have any value as fertilizer / compost material in the vegetable garden?

Any other practical uses, or should I just put it out for the trash guys to deal with?

Gooserider

 

[keydiver]

throw it away!

 

[begreen]

Bummer Goose, that's a lot of gunk. It should reburn, but I have never had enough to try that. Seeing it's black it maybe it would work for melting ice/snow if the sun is shining.

 

[pgmr]

Sure, burn it.

I'd question whether all the exhaust was being routed through the cat. If you're having bypass problems, you'd get that kind of of creosote, but if the cat is working correctly you shouldn't get anywhere near that kind of accumulation.

 

[Gark]

Our county offers (many do) a bi-annual toxic collection for stuff like paints, insecticides, etc. that
shouldn't go in a landfill. The chimney creosote goes there, but then we get maybe 8 cups of the
stuff a year. It's been classed a "likely carcinogenic" when doing a google search for creosote.
Some here have said they re-burn it.

 

[branchburner]

I would display it in a giant glass jar and use it to remind yourself that you've got to solve this creosote problem!

Shouldn't your cat be burning some of that stuff on the way out? Sounds like an awful lot of buildup for a properly functioning stove, assuming it is a properly functioning stove. Any chance the cat isn't firing, or is it possible the draft is being diluted somewhere along the line? Is there a good seal at the top plate?

If the system is sound, maybe you could insulate with loose perlite.

 

[littlesmokey]

Find yourself an exporter to China and send it across the waves. They'll find a use for it and send it back in a new and better form.

 

[begreen]

Maybe send it in a brown paper wrapped package to Elk? :coolgrin:

 

[Diabel]

It just makes no sense....to have all this creo. after one season. I know few people who have the same stoves as you with similar flue heights (tile lined) & have had no need to lean their chimneys for few yrs in a row...

Yap, send that thing back to Elk.....

 

[Gooserider]

Maybe send it in a brown paper wrapped package to Elk? :coolgrin:

Don't tempt me... I could also include the 1/4 inch of ash I found on top of the (brand new last year) aftermarket combustor... At least the job I did to glue and wire the disintegrating refractory box back together is sort of holding - it still doesn't look great, but at least it hasn't fallen apart any further.

I probably am having some bypass problems, as the adjuster for the damper tension has frozen in place, and I can't see any way to pull the damper plate out w/o completely dismantling the stove... I know the damper doesn't "snap" closed like it really ought to, but I don't see how the amount of smoke that is coming out the chimney could get out through the bypass, which closes fairly well even if it might not pass the dollar bill test

It is also interesting to see that even when the stove is running hot (~600 on the stove top according to the two magnetic thermometers, and verified w/ IR unit,) my probe type flue thermo is still only showing 2-400 (and the IR shows 1/2 to 2/3 the probe reading on the pipe surface, which is also consistent.)

Will hopefully try cleaning more often, but that has it's own annoyances like having to go back on the gas heat for a couple days to let the stove cool...

Gooserider

 

[SolarAndWood]

My new to me stove had a good layer of gunk on the inside of the firebox. It burned off easily with a few loads of pine.

 

[John_M]

Gooserider, Re-burning the creosote is counter-intuitive to me. Why re-burn something that almost clogged the chimney in the first place? If it were mine, I would throw it onto my driveway this winter to help melt some frozen snow, or throw it into the waste area at the edge of my property where I throw brush and other yard waste. I use these two methods to recycle stove ashes.

John_M

 

[LLigetfa]

WOW! 15 gallons each year is a lot to dispose of. Do you live on acreage where you could spread or bury it? I've got enough mosquito bog area that a lifetime supply like that would not fill. When I clean my chimney, it all (a cupful) falls back into the stove and gets burned or goes out with the ashes.

As for insulating the liner, if you bust out the clay tile you should have space for insulation. Do you have dedicated outside air for combustion? Drawing humid inside air versus dry outside air can make a big difference in how clean the chimney stays. Still, it sounds like the stove is not burning as clean as it should. I would study the dynamics of the stove's combustion and/or your driving habits.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Like ashes, we throw any creosote on the vegetable garden. It would also work in a flower garden.

 

[quads]

I also spread it on the gardens with the ashes, unless the driveway is icy, then that's where it goes. Although, with my old smoke dragon, I don't get nearly that much creosote. Less than half that, at most. I would say that something could be wrong with your stove.

 

[szmaine]

Like ashes, we throw any creosote on the vegetable garden. It would also work in a flower garden.

I also spread it on the gardens with the ashes, unless the driveway is icy, then that's where it goes. Although, with my old smoke dragon, I don't get nearly that much creosote. Less than half that, at most. I would say that something could be wrong with your stove.

But creosote is a toxic substance! Thats why it can be used as a wood preservative - granted this is usually coal creosote, I believe, but also wood derived.
It is full of PAHs and other crap. If it can prevent growth of wood rotting vermin I can only assume that it will be toxic to your beneficial microbes - the critters that are responsible for the remineralization of organic matter that make nutrient available to your plants.
I don't think it a good idea personally.

 

[LLigetfa]

But creosote is a toxic substance!

Better to kill mosquitoes with.

 

[szmaine]

But creosote is a toxic substance!

Better to kill mosquitoes with.

Exactly, my point ..and microbes, fungi, earthworm etc all good stuff in the veggie garden. I wonder if I can get him to mail it to me - I'll dissolve it in something and paint it all over the bark covered logs that are still trying to hold up the barn.

 

[quads]

But creosote is a toxic substance! Thats why it can be used as a wood preservative - granted this is usually coal creosote, I believe, but also wood derived.
It is full of PAHs and other crap. If it can prevent growth of wood rotting vermin I can only assume that it will be toxic to your beneficial microbes - the critters that are responsible for the remineralization of organic matter that make nutrient available to your plants.
I don't think it a good idea personally.

You are confusing wood creosote with coal creosote. They are not the same.

 

[LLigetfa]

You are confusing wood creosote with coal creosote. They are not the same.

Perhaps, but there must be similarities. The homesteaders would char the first course of logs that touched the ground when they built their log homes. My parents purchased an old homestead that had several log buildings and I was quite impressed with how well the charred logs resisted rot.

 

[quads]

From State of Connecticut, Department of Environmental Protection

“There are three broad categories of preservative treatments for wood currently in use:

creosote,
oilborne chemicals,
and waterborne chemicals.

Creosote is a highly complex mixture of chemicals distilled from coal tar, which is a by-product of producing coke from bituminnous coal in coking ovens. Creosote is essentially an oil-based compound. The most common oilborne preservative is pentachlorophenol, generally known as penta. Penta has been shown to cause birth defects and fetal damage, among other health problems. Both creosote and penta have been a restricted-use pesticide since 1986. Copper naphthenate is the other fairly common oilborne preservative. ”

Not the same as wood creosote in my chimney.

 

[quads]

You are confusing wood creosote with coal creosote. They are not the same.

Perhaps, but there must be similarities. The homesteaders would char the first course of logs that touched the ground when they built their log homes. My parents purchased an old homestead that had several log buildings and I was quite impressed with how well the charred logs resisted rot.

Charred logs do last a long time, but that's because they are burnt, not because they have creosote on them. There are still charred logs laying here and there in our woods from a forest fire in the 60s.

 

[szmaine]

But creosote is a toxic substance! Thats why it can be used as a wood preservative - granted this is usually coal creosote, I believe, but also wood derived.
It is full of PAHs and other crap. If it can prevent growth of wood rotting vermin I can only assume that it will be toxic to your beneficial microbes - the critters that are responsible for the remineralization of organic matter that make nutrient available to your plants.
I don't think it a good idea personally.

You are confusing wood creosote with coal creosote. They are not the same.

Yes, they are different and coal tar creosote was the predominant wood preservative but they are a similar beast...

(broken link removed to http://www.losh.ucla.edu/resources-publications/fact-sheets/creosote_english.pdf)

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50090a015

 

[szmaine]

You are confusing wood creosote with coal creosote. They are not the same.

Perhaps, but there must be similarities. The homesteaders would char the first course of logs that touched the ground when they built their log homes. My parents purchased an old homestead that had several log buildings and I was quite impressed with how well the charred logs resisted rot.

Charred logs do last a long time, but that's because they are burnt, not because they have creosote on them. There are still charred logs laying here and there in our woods from a forest fire in the 60s.

Yes, I agree - not creosote but charcaol, ie impure carbon - all the nitrogen and nutrients burned out- nothing to live on.
This would create a barrier between the environment and the interior wood.

Edit: On second thought, I'm not sure of myself on this one - why not some residual creosote ? - incomplete combustion, volitile chemicals remain - not sure.

 

[quads]

Have you ever eaten smoked meat? Wood creosote is what gives it the flavor. Spreading it on the garden doesn't create a hazardous situation.

Charcoal is used to filter water.