What to look for in a used Jotul F400 or F500

[jmpellet]

I was thinking I was going to get the Englander to put in a fireplace in Southern Maine and everyone here (and Eglander) were so helpful in determining if this was possible. I visited a local dealer and while they would install it, they don't service this brand and since I would be new to the system, I decided this would be a bad decision. They sell Hearthstone and of course Jotul. I got pricing for both and decided I would look for a used Castine or Oslo and get it installed by this dealer to save money.

Could anyone share what to look for in a used stove that migt be from one to five years old. I read here extensively and see that I should make sure the seal is tight with a dollar bill. I would be grateful for any other advice! Thanks in advance.

 

[webby3650]

I wouldn't worry too much with the gaskets, those are cheap. Check for cracks over the entire stove, look for any warping inside, discolored paint, all of these can be signs of overfiring. With a Jotul there is not really much to look for, they hold up really well. Good luck!

 

[tcassavaugh]

I wouldn't worry too much with the gaskets, those are cheap. Check for cracks over the entire stove, look for any warping inside, discolored paint, all of these can be signs of overfiring. With a Jotul there is not really much to look for, they hold up really well. Good luck!

+1....cracks and warping are the tell tale signs. i've had two jotuls, both small but well built and easily run and controlled. i think you'll do well with one, no matter what size you get.

cass

 

[BrowningBAR]

Little background; I have purchased 5 stoves, all have been used.

That said if you were all set to go with an Englander, the fact that the local guy will not service them should not be the main factor for not purchasing one. New stoves, if run correctly, need very little in the way of service. Additionally, Englander has top notch customer service and would assist you if a problem develops with your stove. Apart from that, the only service you will need done is a chimney sweep and the occasional gasket replacement. Both can easily be done by you.

Now, if you are still determined to buy a stove that the local guy will service, there are a few things you need to look for (some of which has been covered):

Warped parts - This could mean anything from repetitive over-fire to improper use. Warped parts could be anything from the fireback, to the ash grill, to burn tubes, the doors, and the external castings. If the ash grill is warped, that indicates that the owner was consistently opening the ash pan on start-up to get the fire going. This can also cause other castings to weaken over time and can cause unexpected cracks even if the practice has been stopped (I've seen it happen on an Oslo recently). With warped doors you can see that they can bulge out or do not align properly. The issue with warped doors is that you can sometimes miss-interpret the problem and assume it is old gaskets. Check casting seems to be sure they line up properly and create a nice smooth line. If a casting is going to warp it is most noticeable when to castings meet.

Cracks - Check internally and externally for cracks. Closely inspect the firebox. If it has firebrick, cracked firebricks are fine and do not indicate poor usage. Firebrick can easily be replaced. Check all external casting panels, including the top casting, for cracks. Any crack you should walk away from unless you are experienced in rebuilding a stove. Cracks in the stove glass are not a huge deal, just understand it needs to be replaced before the stove is used. Factor in the costs with your purchase. Stove glass isn't cheap, but it isn't a deal breaker as it isn't overly-expensive either.

General questions to ask:
Are you the first owner?

How old is the stove?
What is the stove model number? (this goes with the 'how old is the stove' since most owners insist it is only a few years old and only had a few fires in it)

Tell them you are new to this and ask 'how did you figure out how hot the stove gets?' If they say they just went by feel or how the fire looked, walk away from that stove. This indicates that they did not have a stove top thermometer on it and probably burned the hell out of the thing.

And bring a flashlight.

Bottom line is that it is really tough for someone buying used if this is their first stove. Oh, and go with the Oslo. You're in Mane, it's cold with longer winters. Don't worry about being 'cooked out.' It is rare that happens. Better to be too warm than two cold.

 

[Stump_Branch]

Inspect the inside of the stove. They are held together with a few bolts and furnace cement. Look to see that cement is still there and is darker in color. Light grey indicates older cement, so you may be in for recementing joints. Still not hard. Make sure the grate in the bottem isnt warped, this is a sign of possible over firing. Take a peak at the baffel and tubes, make sure they arent dinged or cracked.

A flashlight helps searching. Both of my stoves were used buys. Bit of cleanup and gaskets were really all i did to put them in service.

Good luck.

 

[begreen]

I have to echo BB's comments. Jotuls are great stoves, but I think the reasoning behind not getting an Englander is unwarranted based on anxiety provided by the dealer. Englander makes simple stoves. They're unlikely to need service for many years. If it does, the parts are simple and easy to replace. And Englander's tech support is excellent, including Mike who drops in here on the forum frequently.

That said, if you were thinking the 30NC, it's a big stove and it might not fit. The Castine has about half the capacity and the Oslo about 2/3ds of the 30NC. If you are looking for a used Jotul, BrowningBar has good suggestions. I would add to look very closely at the ash grate and the surrounding base for hairline cracks. If the stove is painted, look for light grey spots in the paint job. Both conditions would hint at overfiring.

There are other options, like installing an insert. We went over this in your other thread but in order to make suggestions, we need accurate fireplace interior dimensions (not the outside brass surround dimensions) and we need to know more about the space you are heating.

 

[jmpellet]

Thank you all for such detailed and thoughtful responses. I am going to print this thread so I have it handy when or if I go looking.

I will definitely re-think whether I should reconsider the Englander. I like its simplicity and that it's made in the US. I actually talked to someone there as I was figuring out whether it would fit in my opening and sent him a photo (it's on an older post here too) and he was extremely helpful. My opening is very large and will take either the Englander or the Oslo. I need additional ember protection for anything of course. My home is 1900 sf but the second floor is about as closed off as it possible so the only way to get the heat up there would be vents. This was an old camp that has an addition.

Another reason I considered going used is that there are a fair number of Jotul's on the used market. In terms of determing age it seems like the Castine added the decorative panel on the side. Does anyone know what year they did that? Thanks again!!

 

[firefighterjake]

Thank you all for such detailed and thoughtful responses. I am going to print this thread so I have it handy when or if I go looking.

I will definitely re-think whether I should reconsider the Englander. I like its simplicity and that it's made in the US. I actually talked to someone there as I was figuring out whether it would fit in my opening and sent him a photo (it's on an older post here too) and he was extremely helpful. My opening is very large and will take either the Englander or the Oslo. I need additional ember protection for anything of course. My home is 1900 sf but the second floor is about as closed off as it possible so the only way to get the heat up there would be vents. This was an old camp that has an addition.

Another reason I considered going used is that there are a fair number of Jotul's on the used market. In terms of determing age it seems like the Castine added the decorative panel on the side. Does anyone know what year they did that? Thanks again!!

Not much to add about looking for a used stove . . . since I have not purchased a used one . . . and everyone offered some very sound advice.

I like Jotul . . . it's a fantastic stove . . . and if you wait and are patient you may be able to get a good deal from someone that bought a woodstove when the heating oil prices spiked a few years back and by now they may have decided that it's too much work and have gone back to oil, pellet stove, etc. Keep watching Uncle Henrys and Craigslist.

That said . . . as much as I love the Oslo . . . I would not hesitate to suggest that an Englander would be a fine fit and the "lack" of service should not be an issue. These stoves are well known for being dependable stoves . . . and the customer service is excellent . . . folks here or even from Englander will help you out if you have any issues. If installing the stove and any liner or Class A chimney is an issue for you chimney sweeps will often install the stove for a fair price.

 

[jmpellet]

Just to follow up. I appreciated the checklist of what to look for as we used it when we confirmed our purchase of an F400. It's three years old and I got it for $800. Think it was a good deal and came with a fair amount of flex tubing that we may or may not be able to use. I'll post photos once we can get it installed. The jotul dealer quoted about $1300 in materials. Does that sound right? This is a fireplace install in a two story colonial. They also charge about $800 for delivery (not necessary now) and installation.

 

[begreen]

Congratulations. That sounds like a nice deal. Maybe post photos now if you have questions.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Just to follow up. I appreciated the checklist of what to look for as we used it when we confirmed our purchase of an F400. It's three years old and I got it for $800. Think it was a good deal and came with a fair amount of flex tubing that we may or may not be able to use. I'll post photos once we can get it installed. The jotul dealer quoted about $1300 in materials. Does that sound right? This is a fireplace install in a two story colonial. They also charge about $800 for delivery (not necessary now) and installation.

$1300 for installation sounds reasonable. My installations were $1700, $1900, and $2200. All were chimney installs.

 

[Mr A]

With the liner that is a great deal. I got my Jotul C450 for $500, but also spent $80+ on gas and a trailer rental. Then $800 for a liner, chimney cap, shipping, then more gas because it snowed and the truck was delayed, and I had to pick it up at the FedEx depot, my help was coming that weekend and another day's delay not acceptable. It adds up quick, but I think I'm still way ahead. There is not much too an install. Have the chimney cleaned,. but those guys are just people to, mine didn't do a very good job. I failed to get my block oof plate in, but I got the liner into the insert. It has been in the 40's overnight, and my hall thermostat reads usually about 60-65 in the morning after I shut the stove down for the night. I've had it up to 70 turned half way down. install is tedious dirty work, but simple enough. I found an offset box at Rockford Chimney Supply that is going to solve my block off plate problem.I learned everything I needed to know here, and learned these so called pros are just people that charge you, and dont necessarily do the best job.