What wood burning insert for a !! large !! existing fireplace?

[paredown]

I started down this road once before & couldn't find good information about wood-burning inserts. Found this site & have learned a lot, but still have not found a posting that addresses my particular problem/question after a few searches.

Does anyone offer really wide surrounds/backing plates for wood-burning inserts, or offer custom surrounds/backing plates?

Our problem is we have an extraordinarily wide existing fireplace that we wanted to install an insert in--63" wide x 30" high by ~24" deep. Masonry firebox, rough fieldstone facing floor to ceiling with a wide (& long) raised hearth, internal single floor chimney (<25 feet as a guess).

The house is a 1963 open plan single floor post & beam contemporary, so the insert would serve to heat the one big area that includes kitchen/lr/dr/entrance (only less than ceiling height partitions separate about 1200 sf total) complete with lots of single pane glass. (The kid bedrooms are a separate wing, down a long hall; the master & office are also a separate "box" ...) We wanted a flush mount rather than a stove so that the existing hearth could be used (it should just make the 16" req. with a flush mount...) and because the living room would work better without a stove jutting out into it.

A local dealer we visited today has Hampton or Regency but I see a 53" backing plate as the largest size they offer---which they consider oversize with the larger insert. He also had Lopi, and the largest size is 53 3/8". Jotul offers a maximum 48" so far as I can see.

If not a larger backing plate, does anyone have ideas for a non-destructive work-around?

(Pics & more accurate measurements to follow, once some construction materials are moved out of the way...)

Cheers,
Dean

 

[SethB2]

63" wide x 30" high by ~24" deep.

Holy crap. "Nah, just cut the firewood to 5' length."

Don't have any advice, sorry.

 

[begreen]

Welcome Dean. A custom surround extension can be made out of stiff sheetmetal (22ga) and painted black. It can be edge-trimmed with standard metal photo/picture framing which comes in a variety of finishes.

 

[JerseyWreckDiver]

How about just forget the built in surround and use a free standing stove sitting within the hearth space. You'll likely get more heat out of that anyway.

 

[SethB2]

How about just forget the built in surround and use a free standing stove sitting within the hearth space. You'll likely get more heat out of that anyway.

I'm trying to picture this in my head, and I think it might look really ..... strange.

 

[SethB2]

Welcome Dean. A custom surround extension can be made out of stiff sheetmetal (22ga) and painted black. It can be edge-trimmed with standard metal photo/picture framing which comes in a variety of finishes.

I would advise something a little heavier than 22 ga. On an opening that is 63" wide, that sheet metal is going to span a larger than normal distance. If I were making it, I would use 16 ga.

my two cents anyway ..

 

[paredown]

Welcome Dean. A custom surround extension can be made out of stiff sheetmetal (22ga) and painted black. It can be edge-trimmed with standard metal photo/picture framing which comes in a variety of finishes.

I would advise something a little heavier than 22 ga. On an opening that is 63" wide, that sheet metal is going to span a larger than normal distance. If I were making it, I would use 16 ga.

my two cents anyway ..

You guys are fast & helpful! Agree with the idea of a little heavier metal...& the suggestion of photo framing is a great idea!

It would probably help me if I had already done an install, but would the normal procedure be to fit stove/ attach liner & then slide the surround into place behind using the stove to trap it against the stone facing, or would the surround need to have some attachments on the backside?

Looking at the Lopi, their surround seems to be made in 3 pieces top & 2 sides--is this for ease of shipping or ease of install?

Thanks,
dean

 

[begreen]

Most surrounds come in 3 pieces, it's likely for easier shipping. The surround is static, it doesn't require super stiff or heavy metal. If you look at the gauge of standard surrounds it's not that heavy. 16 ga is pretty serious stuff.

 

[myzamboni]

How about just forget the built in surround and use a free standing stove sitting within the hearth space. You'll likely get more heat out of that anyway.

Yep, this would look great as your fireplace is basically a stove alcove.

 

[woodgeek]

JWD and Zamboni are bang on. Seems like a perfect app for a hearth stove. Heck, if you wanted more heat you could put two side by side!

 

[mobetter]

This may be way off, but could be worth considering.

How about some thick granite, marble shale, soapstone or limestone counter top material?

You could probably find a shop that has scraps or broken stuff you could get cheap, they could cut it for you too.

Or some landscape places sell some very nice flat stone by the pound.

I would think a stone filler would be far more attractive than a big sheet of flat black steel plate.

 

[Chief Ryan]

I had the same problem problem until i decided to go with a stove. What i was going to do and almost did was make a surround that would have been rough cut to fit inside my arch out of Granite. It would have been expensive and hard to move if i had to, but it would have looked excellent.

Here is a before and after. My firebox is not as big as yours but it was big enough to cause a problem. It's around 42"wide 30" high and 24" deep. If you think the granite would work out for you i think it would be really cool looking. There's hundreds of colors to choose from. I was going to close the firebox with the granite and mount the surround on the granite. I would have recessed the granite about a half inch to get a nice reveal from the stone.

Good Luck

 

[jadm]

Lots of ideas and I will chime in too.

I went looking for a large insert last winter and did consider a free standing stove as others have suggested. A friend has a huge fireplace with a freestanding stove in it and it looks great and produces lots of heat.

Unfortunately my space wasn't large enough to accommodate even a small free standing stove.

THe Jotul 550 is a large insert that is flush and did fit our space. Having had an insert that stuck out about 5 inches before I can speak from experience that you do loose heat when an insert is flush and you are more dependent on using blowers to get the heat out into the room. (Despite this I do love my Jotul for many reasons and would never part with it.)

You are lucky you found this site before making a purchase. Lots of info. here and things to consider. You will be amazed by what you learn and that you will probably end up knowing more than some sales people you run into.

My pitch is to consider a free standing stove because you will get more heat for your money and there are some beauties out there - check out the soapstone models - HEarthstone and Woodstocks. You will not be dependent on blowers.

In any event - have fun. ;-)

 

[adrpga498]

How about just forget the built in surround and use a free standing stove sitting within the hearth space. You'll likely get more heat out of that anyway.

I concur.

 

[meathead]

Like others have said - use a freestanding stove. Unless you have a very ornate (or very specific to the application if it doesn't call for ornate) surround built I think you will likely be happier with the aesthetics of the freestanding stove vs. the insert for your application, and you will find it more effecient as well.

Without any pics of your setup it is tough to tell - but with that much space it could be a really great opportunity to set the stove off to one side of the hearth and use the other side for an interesting wood and fireplace tool storage area. The stove on one side and some matching cast iron racks for your wood and tools on the other, for example.

 

[LeonMSPT]

Brick it in....

 

[Chief Ryan]

Brick it in....

Very Nice

Now that's a mans fireplace. Gun on one side a drill on the other.

 

[fossil]

I think that if it were mine to do, I'd seriously consider installing a hearth stove...a freestanding stove partially inserted into the massive fireplace. I don't think it would look at all strange. Some of those installations are stunning, especially when you have a big fireplace opening to work with. You could put a large stove in there with a blower kit installed, a liner & block-off plate, and have a very effective heater that would likely be capable of putting out more heat than you know what to do with. And I think it just might look terrific. Rick

 

[LeonMSPT]

Middle of muzzleloader season... keeping it dry. Drill was left there after I secured the adaptor into the insert from the inside of the insert. No access to drill and screw the liner adaptor from around the outside with the bricks.

 

[mobetter]

Check out this BIG firebox with a stove in it.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=85852

 

[jdew1920]

JWD and Zamboni are bang on. Seems like a perfect app for a hearth stove. Heck, if you wanted more heat you could put two side by side!

I agree. I like the look of a free standing stove set in like that.

 

[northwinds]

Check out this BIG firebox with a stove in it.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=85852

Firebox? That's almost as big as my kid's bedroom.

 

[paredown]

Thanks to all for their suggestions----I've been offline for a few days & came back to find lots of ideas.

If I went the stove in firebox route, I guess one issue would be height -- I'm assuming that the stove would need to sit up on its legs.

Second thought would be getting it back far enough to ensure that I can get the 16"--the size of the chunk of stone they used for the raised hearth makes me tired just looking at it & I'd hate to have to add/remove or change...

Some of the stoves I've seen also double as inserts. Is the distinction merely a semantic one, or does having the open space around a "stove in firebox" setup make for more efficient heating?

Cheers,
dean

(Pics to follow--today's project was humping the new wall oven home & getting it unloaded by myself without dropping it... have to say I was really impressed with Yellow Freight & their customer service...)

 

[ClydesdaleBurner]

The Clydesdale, by Hearthstone, has a surround extenion that goes to 59" wide by 36" high. Just 2 inches shy on each side, but pretty close.

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/wood-stoves/stove-details?product_id=16)

 

[paredown]

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but we have gone for a full year without making a decision, & the cold weather is starting.

Many things have conspired in our renovation to keep this back-burnered (if that's not too bad of a pun...)

Coming back to this problem of the huge firebox, & now facing an even smaller budget, I'm starting to think the stove in fireplace idea is a good one. New Clydesdale is not possible; I missed one used that I could have afforded, and the only other is one on CL local that they are asking $2500 for--still a little steep for us.

Now, when I look at used stoves around here (Lower Hudson Valley/Metro NY) I see lots of used Vermont Castings Defiants (and others)--but many seem to date from the late 70s/early 80s in various states of reconditioned-ness. Better than Bens are cheap but plug-ugly. Occasional Jotuls, too. But the bigger problem is that I have no stove experience and couldn't tell a good one from a bad one unless it was really obvious, like the door no longer closed. So I've been thinking new, but more modest.

What I have seen that looks interesting is a couple of new Quadra Fire Cumberlands--one on CL ($1650 w/o handles), one on eBay (Long Island, so striking distance--$1850) and a couple that Sleepy posted on this forum (western Penn, but do-able). My thinking is I could set it back a little & use the side loading, since I should have room even if it is partially inside the old firebox. Then that solves my 16" issue as well...

So I have a lot of questions, but the first one is--if we are planning on this stove as supplemental heat mainly in the "great room" (lr/dr/kitchen/entrance--probably closer to 1400 sf than the 1200 I guesstimated--& still all single pane glass) will the Cumberland be enough stove? Since I first posted, I have checked--the chimney is a single round flue that is about 24" across & the damper ledge may allow the 6" pipe to clear without a problem. (I took pictures-but can't find them--probably on the other computer.)

And I would love to hear from someone with experience with them...

Cheers,
Dean