Looking for someone with dolmar first hand experience to give some input on dolmars.I need to run a 24"or 28" bar Was considering a 372 husky or a 441 stil But whitch Dolmar would be compareable to these, or witch one do I need to run a 24" bar? thanks
Which Dolmar
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smokinj
Minister of Fire
WOODBUTCHER
Minister of Fire
My dealers around here are getting the following (priced with a 20" bar)
If I had the money and really needed the power I'd get the 7900 hands down, no doubt.
My little Dolmar 5100s cuts like a *****'ape and hasn't skipped a beat. Good luck with that purchase.
STIHL MS441
70cc / 5.5 hp /14.6 lb powerhead $849.00
Dolmar 7900
79 cc. / 6.3 hp. / 13.6 lb. powerhead $649.00
WoodButcher
If I had the money and really needed the power I'd get the 7900 hands down, no doubt.
My little Dolmar 5100s cuts like a *****'ape and hasn't skipped a beat. Good luck with that purchase.
STIHL MS441
70cc / 5.5 hp /14.6 lb powerhead $849.00
Dolmar 7900
79 cc. / 6.3 hp. / 13.6 lb. powerhead $649.00
WoodButcher
thanks for the info hadent priced them yet. But that price actualy kind of scares me. $200 diff? makes me think of the old saying "you get what you pay for" :roll: I'm normally kind of a cheap skate but on a large purchase like this it makes me think that there has to be a reason it is that big of a differance between the two, I could understand $50 or Maybe $100 difference and getting the same level of quality but not $200WOODBUTCHER said:
Only down sides to Dolmar is lack of dealers. If you can do some work, buy your parts online, and stock up, you can get a much lighter higher hp saw for less money that route. Air filter is a pain, but the (someday) $80 kit should fix that.
contact eric ritchey at ritchey saw, on AS site.
I bought one from him. He put a 7900 top end on a ex-HD rental makita 6401 bottom (they are all the same from 64 to 73 to 79 cc). that switch is VERY common, to the point it is hard to find HD rental returns.
Anyway, I wanted makita plastics anyway, the 'sleeper' look.... they are called 'Dolkitas', or 'Dollys'.
For going into teh wood s and running all day, every day, and getting parts anywhere, I would have gone 460.
but I don't make a living at this, it is just a toy in most sense. So for something different I bought the 7900, looks like new, and under $500. He did an excellant job, and this thing cuts. Super smooth, very light for its power, which is crucial to me.
Or you can buy refurned or new 6401 on ebay for about $300, run it until it wears out, then updgrade to 79 cc top end at the first overhaul 64 is a bit of a slug for the same weight as the 79 but reliable. I would not run a 7900 as my only saw, but for bucking, can't be beat.
Not for the person who treats a saw like a refirigerator, with on & off and that is it. But for someone who treats them like a sports car, they flat outcut anything in the price range.
.02
kcj
contact eric ritchey at ritchey saw, on AS site.
I bought one from him. He put a 7900 top end on a ex-HD rental makita 6401 bottom (they are all the same from 64 to 73 to 79 cc). that switch is VERY common, to the point it is hard to find HD rental returns.
Anyway, I wanted makita plastics anyway, the 'sleeper' look.... they are called 'Dolkitas', or 'Dollys'.
For going into teh wood s and running all day, every day, and getting parts anywhere, I would have gone 460.
but I don't make a living at this, it is just a toy in most sense. So for something different I bought the 7900, looks like new, and under $500. He did an excellant job, and this thing cuts. Super smooth, very light for its power, which is crucial to me.
Or you can buy refurned or new 6401 on ebay for about $300, run it until it wears out, then updgrade to 79 cc top end at the first overhaul 64 is a bit of a slug for the same weight as the 79 but reliable. I would not run a 7900 as my only saw, but for bucking, can't be beat.
Not for the person who treats a saw like a refirigerator, with on & off and that is it. But for someone who treats them like a sports car, they flat outcut anything in the price range.
.02
kcj
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
I have a 7900, most of the time I run it with a 20" bar, as that is all I need for most of the wood I deal with, and the 20" balances better. But every once in a while I get a BIG log, and mount my 28" bar - Saw doesn't skip a beat, I've had it buried full depth in a 40" swamp maple, and the saw never slowed down.
Per Dolmar specs, the 7900 is rated for up to a 32" bar with full comp chain, but I prefer to stick with the 3-4cc's / inch of bar rule, which makes me prefer not to go much over 28" - however I feel quite sure the saw would pull the 32" now that I've tried it with a 28.
I'm VERY impressed with the quality of the Dolmar build - everything seems to be well engineered and put together.
I don't know what Kevin is talking about on the filter - on my saw, I have two snap latches that hold the top plastic on - the scrench pops them right off, and a push puts them back on. Once the top plastic is off, the filter is a plastic housing that is held onto the carb with a wire bail - seems to me like one of the easiest air filters to access and service of any OPE that I own... (and the filter seems to do a good job as well)
Dolmar doesn't spend as much money on advertising as Stihl does, and I think they keep their prices down to make up for the lack of dealers - in addition, there seems to be a very wide variation in what the dealers ask. Some dealers sell at prices comparable to S&H;, others offer real bargains. Unfortunately Dolmar tries to keep people from selling on the net, or I would just say to call Amick's in NC for a price as good or better than anyone on the net.
Gooserider
Per Dolmar specs, the 7900 is rated for up to a 32" bar with full comp chain, but I prefer to stick with the 3-4cc's / inch of bar rule, which makes me prefer not to go much over 28" - however I feel quite sure the saw would pull the 32" now that I've tried it with a 28.
I'm VERY impressed with the quality of the Dolmar build - everything seems to be well engineered and put together.
I don't know what Kevin is talking about on the filter - on my saw, I have two snap latches that hold the top plastic on - the scrench pops them right off, and a push puts them back on. Once the top plastic is off, the filter is a plastic housing that is held onto the carb with a wire bail - seems to me like one of the easiest air filters to access and service of any OPE that I own... (and the filter seems to do a good job as well)
Dolmar doesn't spend as much money on advertising as Stihl does, and I think they keep their prices down to make up for the lack of dealers - in addition, there seems to be a very wide variation in what the dealers ask. Some dealers sell at prices comparable to S&H;, others offer real bargains. Unfortunately Dolmar tries to keep people from selling on the net, or I would just say to call Amick's in NC for a price as good or better than anyone on the net.
Gooserider
Bigg_Redd
Minister of Fire
fabguy01 said:
I'm no Dolmer expert, but you will NEVER wear a 441 out cutting firewood. Your grandchildren MIGHT wear it out.
OK, So seeing how this is going to be my saw for stricktly big wood I,m thinking I am gona go with the 7900 and keep using my 350 for limbing and the smaller stuff. Second question is I was on dolmars website and saw that the offer this saw with just the 7900 nameplate or with the H, or W after the 7900 # , what does that mean?
smokinj
Minister of Fire
I have a 7900 abought 8 years old now, and a 64. I run 20"" 26" and 32" blades, the 79 has never had a problem with the 32", the 64 could use a new clutch as it is around 25 now. Couple years back I slabed out some huge oak logs (2.5' dia.)w/79 for a friend into table tops, bias cut, he was watching and couldn't believe it. I just walked it thru the length of the logs free hand with that 32" on and a sharp semi chisel chain like a warm knife thru lard. Logs were about 50% dry. Both saws have been very good performers. you can get the 7900 in Makita wraps a little cheaper.
Since you have the smaller saw for limbing, I would then definitely recommend the 7900. I love it.
The filter issue is not access, that is great. Couple spring clips, a retainer, and it is off. Probably the fastest of any saw I have or have used.
The air filter problem is well known and discussed, but certainly not crisis or show stopper or saw damaging. I would not shy away from the saw because of it, but do be aware of it. I am hoping the upgrade kit (to be offered as aftermarket, but not incorporated as standard production line build from what I have heard) resolves all of the issues.
Several issues : air flow to the element, air bypassing the element at the joint, and air flow through the element media itself.
First, air flow to the element. The housing holes at the front wall are somewhat restrictive compared to the engine size. The new housing (I've heard about $10) has holes and screen all across the divider wall, not just a few holes on one end. That is an attempt to address the air flow to the element, as well as presecreen out junk which is item 2.
Second half, element efficiency. Two complaints seem common: bypassing around the filter mounting joint, and material passing through the media. I have seen both. The joint is easy to fix with light silicone dielectric grease. Not a good choice for woods work that may require cleaning filter mid day, but works ok for me.
Like any engineering decision, there are tradeoffs to reduce weight and size. One of Dolmar’s attractive features is the weight and size for the engine size and power. They had to reduce every single item by fractions of ounces to add up to a couple pounds of weight savings. I am very glad they did, I love the saws light weight, but those tradeoffs have costs.
For any filter, pressure drop goes up as filtering efficiency goes up. Smaller pores or less surface area = more restriction. Larger area, or larger pores = less pressure drop, less efficiency. The element is neat design with many pleats and folds to get a lot of surface area in a small volume of space. It must have been not quite enough as Dolmar seems to have opted to a fairly large pore media. One complaint is that fine dust (wildfire use for instance) goes through the media and shows up in carb and throat. Wildfire use doesn’t apply to me, but even in homeowner use I have seen some dust through the media. Not unusual, but noticeable. What I have noticed a lot is that sliver shaped wood particles work through the media and end up either trapped in the v folded ends of the media (which is fine) or probably pass right through into the engine. (no, wood is not harmless to the engine. No particles are.) I design hydraulic systems and work with filters a lot. My .02 opinion is that the air velocity is too high, the pores are too large, and the air moves the dirt through the elements. This shows up in a couple hours of use. Hopefully the filter upgrade kit adds enough area to slow down the air velocity, and tightens up on the media layers to reduce the dirt.
Many don’t have the dirt issues. Even some millers have good reports of the filters, so they certainly are not a crisis for Dolmar. But I do believe it is an issue. If I were a pro cutter, maybe different story, but as a homeowner/firewood cutter, even with the dirt that I see in two hours, the saw will likely last me the rest of my lifetime with no more overhauls. I say go for the 7900, I think you will like it a lot.
kcj
The filter issue is not access, that is great. Couple spring clips, a retainer, and it is off. Probably the fastest of any saw I have or have used.
The air filter problem is well known and discussed, but certainly not crisis or show stopper or saw damaging. I would not shy away from the saw because of it, but do be aware of it. I am hoping the upgrade kit (to be offered as aftermarket, but not incorporated as standard production line build from what I have heard) resolves all of the issues.
Several issues : air flow to the element, air bypassing the element at the joint, and air flow through the element media itself.
First, air flow to the element. The housing holes at the front wall are somewhat restrictive compared to the engine size. The new housing (I've heard about $10) has holes and screen all across the divider wall, not just a few holes on one end. That is an attempt to address the air flow to the element, as well as presecreen out junk which is item 2.
Second half, element efficiency. Two complaints seem common: bypassing around the filter mounting joint, and material passing through the media. I have seen both. The joint is easy to fix with light silicone dielectric grease. Not a good choice for woods work that may require cleaning filter mid day, but works ok for me.
Like any engineering decision, there are tradeoffs to reduce weight and size. One of Dolmar’s attractive features is the weight and size for the engine size and power. They had to reduce every single item by fractions of ounces to add up to a couple pounds of weight savings. I am very glad they did, I love the saws light weight, but those tradeoffs have costs.
For any filter, pressure drop goes up as filtering efficiency goes up. Smaller pores or less surface area = more restriction. Larger area, or larger pores = less pressure drop, less efficiency. The element is neat design with many pleats and folds to get a lot of surface area in a small volume of space. It must have been not quite enough as Dolmar seems to have opted to a fairly large pore media. One complaint is that fine dust (wildfire use for instance) goes through the media and shows up in carb and throat. Wildfire use doesn’t apply to me, but even in homeowner use I have seen some dust through the media. Not unusual, but noticeable. What I have noticed a lot is that sliver shaped wood particles work through the media and end up either trapped in the v folded ends of the media (which is fine) or probably pass right through into the engine. (no, wood is not harmless to the engine. No particles are.) I design hydraulic systems and work with filters a lot. My .02 opinion is that the air velocity is too high, the pores are too large, and the air moves the dirt through the elements. This shows up in a couple hours of use. Hopefully the filter upgrade kit adds enough area to slow down the air velocity, and tightens up on the media layers to reduce the dirt.
Many don’t have the dirt issues. Even some millers have good reports of the filters, so they certainly are not a crisis for Dolmar. But I do believe it is an issue. If I were a pro cutter, maybe different story, but as a homeowner/firewood cutter, even with the dirt that I see in two hours, the saw will likely last me the rest of my lifetime with no more overhauls. I say go for the 7900, I think you will like it a lot.
kcj
I have had a 7900 for about a year now. The saw is amazing and is a true bargain. I have only run a 20" bar on it and with that size bar it will not slow down even when the bar is burried and ripping wood (cutting with the grain). I haven't heard of any reliability issues with the 6400-7900 series saws. I have also heard great things about the 5100 but reliability seems to be an issue with that saw. You will be happy with the 7900. Another saw to consider is the Solo 681, the twin to the 7900 which some consider to have better features.
computeruser
Feeling the Heat
fabguy01 said:
A 7300 would be a better direct comparison to the 441. It took another $250 worth of porting work to get the 441 to run like a stock 7900 with its muffler opened up.
Funny how Stihl has everybody by the balls, with folks figuring that their pricing represents the optimum intersection of quality-value-price. Nope. The Dolmar is as well built as anything. They're a breeze to work on, have great power-to-weight, and outrun anything else in their class. I know folks who run the 7900s along with the 372-288-385-390s in logging operations and the 7900s hold up just fine. The only thing wrong with Dolmar is that they just have a crappy dealer network.
7900, muffler modded:
441, ported and muffler modded:
I've had no problems with the Dolmars, whether they're red or blue-gray.
smokinj
Minister of Fire
Can you describe the muffler mod you did to your 7900? Did you realize a reasonable gain in power, how about noise increase? Do you have videos of the 7900 and 441 running, I think you posted that on arboristsite? Finally have you heard of the 5100 receiving improvements to help in its durability? I spoke with my Dolmar dealer and he swears it is operator error that has caused the poor reputation of the 5100. He also sells Husky and says he has had just as many 346's that have failed as the 5100.computeruser said:fabguy01 said:
A 7300 would be a better direct comparison to the 441. It took another $250 worth of porting work to get the 441 to run like a stock 7900 with its muffler opened up.
Funny how Stihl has everybody by the balls, with folks figuring that their pricing represents the optimum intersection of quality-value-price. Nope. The Dolmar is as well built as anything. They're a breeze to work on, have great power-to-weight, and outrun anything else in their class. I know folks who run the 7900s along with the 372-288-385-390s in logging operations and the 7900s hold up just fine. The only thing wrong with Dolmar is that they just have a crappy dealer network.
7900, muffler modded:
441, ported and muffler modded:
I've had no problems with the Dolmars, whether they're red or blue-gray.
LLigetfa
Minister of Fire
I heard that the Dolmar mufflers are fairly open and don't benefit much by mod'ing. Was there work done on the port itself?
Bigg_Redd
Minister of Fire
computeruser said:
With the number of perfectly running 20+ year old Stihls around here it's hard to argue against Stihl being the best intersection of quality-value-price.
In 15 or 20 years when my overweight and underpowered 290 takes a dump I might look at Dolmers, if they're still around.
Bigg_Redd said:
Dolmar has been in the business of selling gas powered chain saws longer than anyone else and since teaming with Makita they have only strengthened their financial position, rest assured they will be around for a long time. Hopefully by the time you replace your 290 you will know how to spell Dolmar, if so I will consider selling you my well used 15 or 20 year old 7900!
Woodbutcher,
That is a heck of a price for the Dolmar 7900.
Here in Southern Indiana / Louisville Kentucky I have been getting quotes around $650.00 for the 7300 w/ 20" bar
Ben
That is a heck of a price for the Dolmar 7900.
Here in Southern Indiana / Louisville Kentucky I have been getting quotes around $650.00 for the 7300 w/ 20" bar
Ben
Gooserider
Mod Emeritus
DMX_512 said:
This is one of my gripes - lots of the so-called Dolmar dealers think that they can inflate their profits by pricing the saws like H&S;, which IMHO discourages sales because it takes away one of the reasons to try a Dolmar instead of the more expensive saws... There are a few shops, such as Amicks or Edge & Engine, that have realized that the way to move saws is to price them reasonably, and thus get them into customers hands (and make more profits on parts, service, and so forth) - For a while you could mail order from Amicks, which is how I got my saw (and had an absolutely top notch customer service experience) but Dolmar has now tried to prohibit "distance selling" - and Amicks website now says they won't ship saws - (Don't know if there is a way around this)...
IMHO this hurts everyone involved - I wouldn't have bought the saw I did if it was more expensive, and that would have kept Dolmar and the local dealer from making the sale, and wouldn't have done anything for the local dealer (who might otherwise see me for service and / or parts...) When I was shopping, I called every reasonably local dealer listed on the Dolmar website; NONE had the saw in stock, several knew less about the saw than I did (I could tell because there was an error in their wholesaler's price book, and they gave me the wrong specs), and the best price for the package of stuff I wanted was $100 more than Amicks, not including the local shopping penalty, which was about equal to the UPS charges)
All I can say is keep shopping around. Also it might be worth checking with some of the shops that are active over on Arboristsite - I don't know any details, but I've heard rumors that "ways can be found"...
BTW, I just checked Amicks site a couple minutes ago - currently they are listing the 6400 for $570, the 7300 for $650, and the 7900 for $750 (all must be picked up in store according to site page), so you aren't that far out of range Ben...
Gooserider
Well,I wanted to give the dolmar a shot but after searching local shop's I found only one reasonably close to me "i like to help local biz" they quoted me $750 for 7300 w/24"bar "almost the same as a ms441 or 372xp"!! and had to order it. also i have no knowledge of this dealer,what if our relationship goes south for whatever reason, then what I have to drive to the next dealer 43 miles away no thanks. there are ALOT of husqvarna and stihl dealers around here so I WILL be going that route. Now I know they are both good saws and think reliability is comparable. from what I've heard the 372xp is more the high rpm race car type saw where the ms441 is more of a broad torque band diesel truck hard to bog down type saw , is this pretty accurate? thanks nate
TMonter
Minister of Fire
Not really both are pretty equivalent when you run them side-by-side but for overall feel and modibility I like the 372XP. To me the 372 just feels smoother in the cut although I do like the sound of the Stihl.
Just to note I have the equivalent of the 441 (MS440) and I have tried a 441.
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