Which Vermont Castings Stove?

[Dan Maldonado]

Hello,
I have a builder fireplace that I plan on having a Vermont Castings wood stove vent out through. The local fireplace store has the units on sale for 50% off retail. I have a 1965 square-foot home that is a colonial. The choices available are: defiant 2-1 stove, encore stove. Defiant is rated up to 2400 sq ft, and the encore 1800 sq ft. They are both on sale for 50% off, so I am looking for which option would be the best one for my home. I would be using a ceiling fan to circulate the air throughout the house and a box fan to distribute it to different parts of the first floor. Thank you so much for your assistance and I look forward to your comments!

 

[bholler]

Personally i would stay away from most vc stoves but there are plenty who still like them. I am sure some of them will chime in with recommendations. And as far as the fireplace goes you do know you will need a full liner in there dont you?

 

[Dan Maldonado]

Personally i would stay away from most vc stoves but there are plenty who still like them. I am sure some of them will chime in with recommendations. And as far as the fireplace goes you do know you will need a full liner in there dont you?

Explain the liner thing total noob with this way of install.

 

[Squisher]

If a insert or stove is vented through the throat of a masonry chimney it must be directly connected to a full liner. So your chimney will need a full s.steel liner even if it's in good shape. If it is in good shape and built to code(unlikely)and interior to the home you can get away fine with a uninsulated liner. But if the liners are cracked, clearances are questionable, and one or more sides of it is exterior to the home than insulated is the way to go. Sometimes there are fitment issues to get a insulated liner down and things like breaking out the clay liners are one of the options used to 'make room'. Sometimes you can downsize the liner depending on the stove and setup.

If you post detailed drawings, descriptions, and pictures you'll get lots of excellent advice here. Also if you search around you'll find answers to lots of the common questions.

If you don't want to figure it all out yourself than definetly call on some pros like a qualified sweep for advice.

 

[Dan Maldonado]

If a insert or stove is vented through the throat of a masonry chimney it must be directly connected to a full liner. So your chimney will need a full s.steel liner even if it's in good shape. If it is in good shape and built to code(unlikely)and interior to the home you can get away fine with a uninsulated liner. But if the liners are cracked, clearances are questionable, and one or more sides of it is exterior to the home than insulated is the way to go. Sometimes there are fitment issues to get a insulated liner down and things like breaking out the clay liners are one of the options used to 'make room'. Sometimes you can downsize the liner depending on the stove and setup.

If you post detailed drawings, descriptions, and pictures you'll get lots of excellent advice here. Also if you search around you'll find answers to lots of the common questions.

If you don't want to figure it all out yourself than definetly call on some pros like a qualified sweep for advice.

The fireplace is a Lennox bc 42 and it is about 8 years old. I don't have a masonry chimney. Is a liner costly to replace? Please advise. I will post exterior photos later this week too.

 

[bholler]

The fireplace is a Lennox bc 42 and it is about 8 years old. I don't have a masonry chimney. Is a liner costly to replace? Please advise. I will post exterior photos later this week too.

In that case you need a liner because the chimney on that fireplace for one is way to large for a modern stove and it is also not rated for a high enough temperature. And I would recommend an insulated liner no matter what the situation. In fact it is almost always required by code.

But if the liners are cracked

That is a common misconception but it has no bearing on the need for insulation.

 

[defiant3]

Find out first whether this dealer or someone else locally will service the stove when it need it. Cause it will.

 

[claydogg84]

Find out first whether this dealer or someone else locally will service the stove when it need it. Cause it will.

Agreed. Do some more research on Vermont Castings before making this purchase. If you purchase one anyways, you'll likely be back in 3 or so years asking how to repair it.

 

[Dan Maldonado]

Hello,
Based on what I have been seeing here no one is really a fan of VC, I get that. But it seems the newer ones are better than the previous models mentioned. The intent was to purchase because the price was so good. The place selling them also services them as well. Thanks so much for all the information!

 

[webby3650]

Hello,
Based on what I have been seeing here no one is really a fan of VC, I get that. But it seems the newer ones are better than the previous models mentioned. The intent was to purchase because the price was so good. The place selling them also services them as well. Thanks so much for all the information!

Any idea why they are selling them at 50%off? We did that once we decided we would no longer carry the VC line due to durability issues. We no longer carry any VC stoves after 30 some years as a VC dealer..

 

[Diabel]

If you are looking to use the stove as a primary source of heat, then yes in about three years you will be replacing some parts. I would look for something else. Lots of sales to be found.

They are good heaters if operated in ideal conditions (setup and seasoned wood).

Will this be a professional install? The hearth will need a major work.

 

[Dan Maldonado]

If you are looking to use the stove as a primary source of heat, then yes in about three years you will be replacing some parts. I would look for something else. Lots of sales to be found.

They are good heaters if operated in ideal conditions (setup and seasoned wood).

Will this be a professional install? The hearth will need a major work.

Yes it wil be a professional install here's the website of the place that will be doing the work:
http://www.bowdensfireside.com
The wood I have is well seasoned as it is over 4 years old since split.

 

[Squisher]

In that case you need a liner because the chimney on that fireplace for one is way to large for a modern stove and it is also not rated for a high enough temperature. And I would recommend an insulated liner no matter what the situation. In fact it is almost always required by code.


That is a common misconception but it has no bearing on the need for insulation.

I see now that it's a builders box/factory built fireplace and not a masonry chimney.

But the second part of your comment in regards to cracked flue tiles in a masonry chimney. Could you explain further how cracked flue tiles have no bearing on the need for a insulated liner? I don't think Canadian code is different but it's my understanding that if a masonry chimney that is otherwise fine has cracked flue tiles that it can be brought back up to code through the installation of a insulated liner. Same as how you can bust out all the flue tiles if need be and still meet code with a insulated liner if the chimney was properly built to begin with?

 

[Squisher]

@bholler or are you saying it has no need to be insulated as long as the chimney was built to code?

 

[bholler]

Could you explain further how cracked flue tiles have no bearing on the need for a insulated liner? I don't think Canadian code is different but it's my understanding that if a masonry chimney that is otherwise fine has cracked flue tiles that it can be brought back up to code through the installation of a insulated liner.

Yes an insulated liner will bring a chimney with cracked tiles up to code. What I was saying was that the condition or even existence of a clay liner has no bearing on whether or not insulation is required. What determines that is the clearance to combustibles from the outside of the masonry structure 1" is required for exterior chimneys and 2" for internal ones. You also have to look at the manufacturers requirements to meet the ul listing every one I have seen requires insulation to meet that listing for solid fuel burning appliances. And code requires you meet the listing for any listed product. So basically just about every liner needs to be insulated to meet code.

 

[bholler]

Based on what I have been seeing here no one is really a fan of VC, I get that. But it seems the newer ones are better than the previous models mentioned. The intent was to purchase because the price was so good. The place selling them also services them as well. Thanks so much for all the information!

Yes the newer ones are much better but they still in my opinion at least have an overly complicated combustion system with lots of expensive and delicate parts. Like I said there are still allot of people who love their vc stoves but I personally would never put one in my house or recomend one to a customer.

Is a liner costly to replace?

That depends on your definition of costly. It will probably run between $1000 and $2000 depending on lost of variables. Some we do are more than that but most liners in zero clearance fireplaces are fairly straight forward.

 

[begreen]

The Lennox BC42 should have a Security FTF8 chimney system. This is triple wall. Why would insulation be required for the liner in this case? Doesn't the pipe design and size create the required barrier to combustibles based on its design and that it is installed with 2" clearances?

 

[bholler]

The Lennox BC42 should have a Security FTF8 chimney system. This is triple wall. Why would insulation be required for the liner in this case? Doesn't the pipe design and size create the required barrier to combustibles based on its design and that it is installed with 2" clearances?

Yes but if the ul listing of that liner calls for insulation then insulation is required by code. I saw that the installers they will be using use homesaver liners and I know that their listing requires it. Also a triple wall chimney is air cooled so it will not do much to maintain temperature in the liner so you want it insulated for performance reasons as well.

I will also say that many prefab fireplace chimneys where not installed with proper clearance so before doing anything that should be confirmed.

 

[Dan Maldonado]

Thanks so much guys! If there is a list of questions you think I should ask the retailer please post them as I'm going there tomorrow evening.

 

[begreen]

Back to your original question - the stove is an area heater. The size should be determined somewhat by the size of area around the stove and not necessarily the whole house. This is particularly true when the room that the stove is in is closed off or in a wing off the main house. Describe the area where the stove will be located and the general house floorplan. Is it an open floorplan with large openings between areas and rooms, or are most rooms accessed through a regular doorway?

 

[Dan Maldonado]

Back to your original question - the stove is an area heater. The size should be determined somewhat by the size of area around the stove and not necessarily the whole house. This is particularly true when the room that the stove is in is closed off or in a wing off the main house. Describe the area where the stove will be located and the general house floorplan. Is it an open floorplan with large openings between areas and rooms, or are most rooms accessed through a regular doorway?

It is in the living room, the largest room in the home with no doors. Facing out from the fireplace are the stairs which have a large opening facing out to the right and the on the other side is an opening to the kitchen, but it is not a full opening. The ceiling fan I plan on getting would be in the middle of the room, and a box fan would push air into the kitchen area. I have 9ft ceilings and the home is 1965 sq ft total.

 

[begreen]

Both would work, but if the intent is to burn and heat 24/7 with the stove then I would go for the larger one. That said, I echo above concerns about this line of stoves. They have been improved but still are complex and tend to be more repair prone which may negate short term savings. Does the dealer sell any other brands?

 

[Dan Maldonado]

They sell blaze King, jotul, lopi, VC, Dutch west.

 

[webby3650]

They sell blaze King, jotul, lopi, VC, Dutch west.

For a rear exit stove, Jotul all day long. No question...

 

[Diabel]

Run with Jotul and don't look back. No need!