Whitfield died?

Bugs Posted By Bugs, Nov 4, 2017 at 9:10 PM

  1. bob bare

    bob bare
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Oct 31, 2013
    2,035
    352
    Loc:
    park county montana
    If it starts back up and runs,turn off and unplug,to save the board you repaired.I highly suspect a wire has a rubbed through spot somewhere,could be very tiny.One old school way,put inline fusees in the power feed wires to all 3 motors,smaller amps than main fuse.Will leave you some info links,not all apply to your stove,but good stuff.http://www.hearthtools.com/parts/lowlimit.htm http://butkus.org/whitfield_operate/whitfield_operate.htm https://www.scribd.com/document/153792908/Advantage-II-T-Classic-Pellet-Stove-Manual. And--KF7BBL :)
     
  2. Bugs

    Bugs
    New Member 2.
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    Aug 30, 2017
    65
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    Loc:
    Portland Oregon
    Yes, it was working fine auger was working correctly. I’m thinking problem solved, then I heard the fuse blow. I bought the fuses at Home Depot they match the rating of the original.(amps-volts). Wiring all appears to be fine. And now with a new fuse the auger is running all the time again....on or off :-(
     
  3. Stovensen

    Stovensen
    Feeling the Heat 2.
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    Feb 1, 2010
    433
    85
    Loc:
    Denmark, EU
    The fuse on my control board is rated 6 Amps and it's an F type ( F= fast action ). The Amp rating of the fuse in a 120 Volt stove is probably a little higher.

    Try a test run with both blowers and auger motor unplugged. If fuse pops now, something is shorted on the board. Otherwise plug each load in one at a time, until the fuse blows.

    If you have a good ampère meter you could insert the probes from this instead of the fuse and take a reading of the current that is drawn, and also see if the current is fluctuating violently ( periodic failure? )

    Good luck and take care.
     
  4. bob bare

    bob bare
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Oct 31, 2013
    2,035
    352
    Loc:
    park county montana
    So the fuse blew,and took out the triac again?Time to do what I said with inline fuses.
     
  5. Bugs

    Bugs
    New Member 2.
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    Aug 30, 2017
    65
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    Loc:
    Portland Oregon
    Yes, it took out the triac AGAIN! I didn’t do as Bob suggested in time..I did get extras (triac and varistor) but I just don’t get where it is shorting, guess I’m going to have to uninstall and go through all the wiring with a fine tooth comb.
     
  6. bob bare

    bob bare
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Oct 31, 2013
    2,035
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    Loc:
    park county montana
    Newer electronics are much better protected,your old board is not.Used to be common to install separate inline fuses in older stoves.Good luck.
     
  7. Bugs

    Bugs
    New Member 2.
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    Aug 30, 2017
    65
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    Loc:
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    70EE110D-B43F-449C-877D-44668881E17B.jpeg 9B2C3066-E47F-420B-8D71-E17A345A2571.jpeg 06F229B8-DF95-4315-94A8-8765523C9AD9.jpeg
    Here are some pictures before it was cleaned what wires would you put inline fuses?
     
  8. bob bare

    bob bare
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    Oct 31, 2013
    2,035
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    Loc:
    park county montana
    The hot side of the motors.close to control,busy right now,will check your manual and get back to you later.
     
  9. bob bare

    bob bare
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    Oct 31, 2013
    2,035
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    Loc:
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    Your wire colors may be different.The main thing is to be on the hot leg,does not do any good to be on the ground leg.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. bob bare

    bob bare
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    Oct 31, 2013
    2,035
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    Loc:
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    I put x where I would do it,could be either side of terminal board
     
  11. Bugs

    Bugs
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    Aug 30, 2017
    65
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    Loc:
    Portland Oregon
    I would assume an inline fuse rated the same that is on the board.
     
  12. bob bare

    bob bare
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    Oct 31, 2013
    2,035
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    Loc:
    park county montana
    No,I would go lower,you are testing/protecting individual items,not the whole system,that way if one goes,will not damage board.
     
  13. Stovensen

    Stovensen
    Feeling the Heat 2.
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    Feb 1, 2010
    433
    85
    Loc:
    Denmark, EU
    Bugs, this could explain, why your stove keeps blowing the auger-triac and the fuse: The auger rotation is restricted ( worn out Nylatron bushing ). This extra load on the motor overheats the auger-triac so much that it melts down after some minutes and turns into a permanent short circuit. Now auger motor gets 120 Vac constantly through the shorted triac, and this will eventually blow the fuse.
    I bet your stove originally had a 3A fuse installed, since there's no igniter, right?
    In this old thread several Advantage stoves had the same issue like yours. One user "cured" it by upgrading to a 6A fuse, but the correct remedy is to inspect the auger bearing for any restrictions due to wear. Most likely it's just the Nylatron bushing that needs replacement.
    https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/whitfield-advantage-2-making-me-go-bald-pulling-my-hair-out.116588/
     
  14. Bugs

    Bugs
    New Member 2.
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    Aug 30, 2017
    65
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    Loc:
    Portland Oregon
    So if the triac melts down and creates a short, wouldn’t the auger run nonstop for a period of time before the fuse blows? I’m not seeing that happen. The stove is running normal and then I hear the fuse pop (loud) and after replacing the fuse it now runs continuously (auger). However it does make some sense, it seamed like when I span the auger by hand replacing the auger it seemed to hang up a bit like something was jammed. Then it seemed to free up?
     
  15. Stovensen

    Stovensen
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Feb 1, 2010
    433
    85
    Loc:
    Denmark, EU
    If we could have measured both the torgue produced by the auger motor and the current flow trough the triac, and also have had a data logging system record the exact time for these events, I'm sure the curves would have peaked at the same time. The loud sound you hear, must be generated by the stuck auger shaft losing its torgue very abruptly, when power is cut by the burnt fuse.
    The melting of a fuse thread inside its glass tube is quite silent.

    Time to pull the auger shaft for a closer inspection. If your stove has the older Oilite bronze bushing, I strongly recommend upgrading to the Nylatron version, but this requires the purchase of both a new endplate and Nylatron bushing:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUGER-BEARING-ENDPLATE-for-WHITFIELD-PELLET-STOVE-PP4010-12153900-13650072-/401052357998
     
  16. Bugs

    Bugs
    New Member 2.
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    Aug 30, 2017
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    Loc:
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    Usually fuses die a peaceful death, but 2 out of 3 where loud and left the fuses black inside. I’ll empty my pellets again and pull the auger.
     
  17. bob bare

    bob bare
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Oct 31, 2013
    2,035
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    Loc:
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    And,(I know you do not want to hear this) there have been cases that control boards blow the fuse/short after running for a while.
     
  18. Bugs

    Bugs
    New Member 2.
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    Aug 30, 2017
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    Loc:
    Portland Oregon
    Pulled the auger motor off, cleaned out the hopper. Been spinning the auger by hand and no hang ups... it does have about 1/4 in of play in/out not really any excessive play. It was definitely hanging up the first time I had the motor off, but I also had a lot of sawdust I was trying to remove old pellets.
     
  19. Ssyko

    Ssyko
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    Nov 6, 2017
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    Loc:
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    If the armature slides up / down it wil lose alot of its torque because of the armature moving out of the manetic field the coil is producing. They use nylon and phenolic washers/shims to keep it centered. So if you power the auger up while holding it you can see the armature move down(usually) from the worm gear made into the shaft. That pulls it into the gearbox. You can add more washers to that end of the shaft to make up for the wear. But it only going to be a temp fix, might get an hour might get a year. Never know

    1/4” up n down is excessive
     
  20. Stovensen

    Stovensen
    Feeling the Heat 2.
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    Feb 1, 2010
    433
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    Loc:
    Denmark, EU
    Something like this must be blocking your auger. 1/4 '' clearance is way too much.

    "The auger blades were hitting the back plate"

    stuck auger.jpg
     
    Ssyko likes this.
  21. Don2222

    Don2222
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    Feb 1, 2010
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    I found a similar issue. The insulation melted off one of the auger motor wires and shorted to the stove body, and caused the igniter to burn out and blow the fuse!
    On another stove a shorted igniter kept blowing the fuse!
     
  22. Bugs

    Bugs
    New Member 2.
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    Aug 30, 2017
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    Loc:
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    That maybe what I am experiencing, I’ll order the nylatron endplate you suggested, or is there more to do? Do I also need to replace the bushing and get spacers. Than I still have to get my board fixed again, I did get an extra triac and veristor just in case, should I replace them both again.

    thank you all for the great help.
     
  23. Stovensen

    Stovensen
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Feb 1, 2010
    433
    85
    Loc:
    Denmark, EU
    How much is left of the bushing in your stove? Is it nylon or bronze?
    It is the bushing that keeps the lower part ( the auger blade ) in safe distance from the back plate. A spacer or a washer should not be needed. At least not when all parts are new. When things get worn heavily, a spacer could help keeping a safe distance, but wouldn't it increase friction? The Nylatron bushing in my stove has been working well for ten years without any spacer.

    Are there obvious signs of your augerblade grinding on the endplate? Can you post of pic the involved parts?
    You need to inspect the entire auger mechanism for abnormal wear or damage.
    If your stove had a Nylatron bushing from new, there's no need to buy the extra endplate, just the Nylatron bushing. A bronze bushing has a different diameter, so different endplate.

    Since the auger runs continously, the triac must be replaced. The varistor I would remove permanently and instead run the stove with a quality surge protector. An even better solution is an UPS ( Uinterrupted Power Supply ) and not much more expensive.
    Keeping my fingers crossed on your success with the stove.
     
  24. Bugs

    Bugs
    New Member 2.
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    Aug 30, 2017
    65
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    Loc:
    Portland Oregon
    I haven’t pulled the auger out yet, will do that today and take pictures. I’m sure this is the original plate.
    If I remove the veristor will I need to jump the holes left ?
     
  25. Stovensen

    Stovensen
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Feb 1, 2010
    433
    85
    Loc:
    Denmark, EU
    NO ! by no means jump the holes left. This will blow the fuse immediately. The varistor is connected between the hot phase and neutral. It has to be, you know, in order to absorb surges on the mains supply.
    Remember: The varistor is a Voltage Dependent Resistor that is shunting the surges by turning into a very low resistance, when the applied voltage is over a certain threshold.
    But don't remove the varistor, unless you have an external surge protector of a good quality. The TrippLite I mentioned earlier in the thread is one of the best.
    Looking forward to see what's left of the bushing.
     

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