Whitfield died?

[Ssyko]

Have you got room to put the terminals at the 12 o’clock position and add this stop to your plate
https://pellet-stove-parts-4less.co...MI6ZzNpeCP2AIViY2zCh3jXwchEAQYDSABEgKzyPD_BwE

 

[Stovensen]

I think it was touching close enough that it would dead short, On heavy torque

If you have a GFCI ( ground fault circuit interrupter ) installed in your house wiring, such a serious leakage to ground would instantly make the GFCI cut the power to the stove ( and all other outlets on the same group ). Do you know if there's a GFCI installed?

 

[Mt Bob]

Do not forget the load and expansion on the motors is less with the stove not burning,much less heat around.

 

[Monica in France]

Stovensen : I would agree with you if the short is not on the board side of the circuit. But if it is between the motor and the triac I think it would toast the triac and blow the fuse before the GFCI has time to react.
Could the fuse not blowing on the re-start up because there is no torque on the auger ?
Any suggestions why this torque is not more or less constant ?

Keep it up Bugs , we are all cheering for you.

 

[Ssyko]

Could the fuse not blowing on the re-start up because there is no torque on the auger ?

I don't think Bugs has the auger hooked up yet Monica.

 

[Stovensen]

Stovensen : I would agree with you if the short is not on the board side of the circuit. But if it is between the motor and the triac I think it would toast the triac and blow the fuse before the GFCI has time to react.

Now that's a tricky question. Very difficult to answer. We need to study the datasheet of the particular GFCI ( if installed ) to know how fast it is compared to the fuse and the triac. Normally GFCIs are set to get tripped at 30 milliamps, so there should be plenty of amps to tripp it, but how long duration of a ground leakage is needed to trip it?
A GFCI is a safety device that protects the user against potential lethal voltages on the chassis, so it should be as fast as possible.

 

[Bugs]

2 days and a bag of pelllets, still going... I do have GFI’s installed in my home need to install more.
As for repositioning the auger, it is centered directly over the air intake so no matter where I position the plate one of the terminal’s will hit. As cheesy as it may be, it appears my best option is as Ssyco suggested, some type of insulation from the AI I have some rubber pads, I think I even have ceramic insulators.

 

[Mt Bob]

Your old motor did not have the terminals that stick out.You can bend them,grasp behind them,on the plastic with pliers,bend with thumb or other pliers.Most auger mounting plates have a stop made into them,cannot see if yours does.Will leave picture. http://pellethead.com/product-tag/advantage-auger-motor-stop-plate/

 

[Bugs]

Your old motor did not have the terminals that stick out.You can bend them,grasp behind them,on the plastic with pliers,bend with thumb or other pliers.Most auger mounting plates have a stop made into them,cannot see if yours does.Will leave picture. http://pellethead.com/product-tag/advantage-auger-motor-stop-plate/

Ya kinda, the original didn’t have spade connectors, it was hard wired. I am going to put heat wrap on them, I’ll go through my old radio antenna insulation and see if I can make something work.

 

[Monica in France]

Stovensen : I too am accustomed to 30 mA protection . But I notice a lot of wall plugs in the USA have built in CGFI's. I looked at one in Home Depot and it claims it trips at 5mA . They have them next to their basins in their bathrooms !
And I agree that the question of which blows quicker : a fuse or a CGFI , is a matter of specification.
But I put my money on the fuse as it is specified for the situation whereas the CGFI is a general concept and must handle all sorts of loads and avoid 'false alerts' .

I think Bob's suggestion to bend the terminal out of harms way is very sensible.
And make sure the terminal in question is 'after' the motor , so if it did short it would test the CGFI and not cook the triac.

 

[Ssyko]

Bugs at home depot or lowes they have a neoprene weather strip that is self adhesive on 1 side you coul wrap your intake pipe. I use int on the englander to keep the auger noise down where they contact the shelf it works awesomely

 

[stellep]

I've used a a piece of velcro stick on (either side) in these situations.

 

[Bugs]

Thanks, those are both good ideas, I was thinking about lining the inside of the stove with foil insulation like used in a dish washer, for the same reason (noise) although it’s not to bad just a side panel rattle now and then.

 

[Ssyko]

That should help with noise immensely.

 

[Bugs]

Thanks to all that helped me getting the old whit... working again so far so good.
Looks like I may have a combustion fan issue. Fan doesn’t start right away, fire goes out and fills the house with smoke, I’m guessing the fan motor is sticky after 25 years of use . I cleaned it well before re-assembly and oiled it with 3in1 oil, it does start eventually when I cycle thru the speeds. May be the next part tp replace.
Still worth it. She heats my little home well.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

I just ordered a new one for mine as well since the cooling fan is rattling on the motor shaft. The motor and blower fan still seem to be fine but I can't get the blower fan off the shaft - frozen on solid! I ordered one off Amazon that has the housing and quick change setup since mine doesn't have that. Should be nice to have for easy cleaning since the way it is now I have to remove the exhaust pipe and motor/housing just to get inside.

 

[Stovensen]

Fan doesn’t start right away, fire goes out and fills the house with smoke, I’m guessing the fan motor is sticky after 25 years of use

Probably just some dust bunnies that are stuck deep down in the space between the armature and the stator, thus restricting the rotation.
Easy to remove with a pipe cleaner and some canned compressed air.
You'll have to pull the blower in order to deep clean it. When doing this, try to spin the rotor by hand to check for any restriction.

The surface of the impeller before cleaning is a tell tale for combustion quality:

 

[stellep]

This was a motor year for me. I replaced the combustion motor in the fall. It would take minutes(3) to spin up and trip the vacuum switch.
The motor was only two years old, the original had lasted 18
.
I should have expected it as I had gone with the inexpensive sleeve-bearing motor. The new one is ball-bearing spec, so it should last longer. Can't beat the lifetime of the OEM Fasco motors though.

Then, a week or so ago, I started hearing the intermittent bearing noise of the convection motor, so I got one of those also. I'll swap it out when the temps get out of the single digits here and keep the noisy one for spare.

No oil ports on these newer motors.

So, in over 20 years I will have replaced:
these two motors(well 3) this year,
three ignitors,
and the door and window gaskets, once, five years ago.

Not too shabby.

 

[Stovensen]

Can't beat the lifetime of the OEM Fasco motors though.

The blower motors in my Quest Plus are the OEM Fasco motors from 1998. The bearings show absolutely no signs of wear ( excessive clearance ).
Yes, they must be of a very high quality!

 

[Bugs]

Yes I believe I have the same fasco a few years older,this is a picture from when I bought the stove, a vacuumed and put some 3in1 oil. Maybe the oil wasn’t a good idea.

 

[Mt Bob]

Motors with sleeve bushings/bearings,can last longer,with oiling,but are much cheaper to make,and considered disposable,Motors with ball bearings use grease,as oil would not stay.Used to be an old skateboarders trick,wash the grease out of the ball bearings,and lube with high quality oil,you could go faster quicker,but would be replacing the bearings quite frequently.Many pellet stove blowers,esp. combustion blowers,have bearings that can be replaced,But I see a resurgence of cheaper combustion blower motors(again,seems to go in multi year cycles) of using sleeve motors.Hope this heels.You can always "oil" a ball bearing,with a needle(cheep insulin needle works) to make it last a bit longer,but is not a repair,just a patch.

 

[Mark_ms]

Great thread!! Glad that your up and running!

 

[Stovensen]

If the rotor on your combustion blower rotates freely ( when spinning it by hand for example ), then next it should be checked with an ohmmeter if the copper resistance of the stator winding is within specs ( 20 Ohm +/- 2 Ohm ). If this resistance is considerably higher, then a faulty thermal protector is most likely the cause.
The thermal protector is a miniature high limit switch in thermal contact with the stator winding deep inside the motor ( and of course electrically in series with the winding ). A real pain to replace, but not impossible if you have a well equipped metal workshop.
Bugs, what ohm-reading do you get, when you measure the copper resistance of the stator winding?

Thermal protector:

 

[Bugs]

If the rotor on your combustion blower rotates freely ( when spinning it by hand for example ), then next it should be checked with an ohmmeter if the copper resistance of the stator winding is within specs ( 20 Ohm +/- 2 Ohm ). If this resistance is considerably higher, then a faulty thermal protector is most likely the cause.
The thermal protector is a miniature high limit switch in thermal contact with the stator winding deep inside the motor ( and of course electrically in series with the winding ). A real pain to replace, but not impossible if you have a well equipped metal workshop.
Bugs, what ohm-reading do you get, when you measure the copper resistance of the stator winding?

Thermal protector:
View attachment 219358 View attachment 219359

I will have to pull the cover and check, maybe a few days. I can get it going if I power up and let run for several minutes, the combustion fan will start. Wife likes having fire in the cold weather.
I’m sure all these Original parts are getting tired.

 

[stellep]

I had the same issue with my combustion fan some years ago. It would squeak and stick on power up. I could get it to start by spinning the motor cooling fan on the motor side of the firebox. But it would stick again the next day.

Not having the turbine oil that Fasco requires, I gave the bearings a healthy dose of Mobil 1 5w-30. I had nothing to lose at this point. The motor was still erratic for a couple of days and then started working again.

Then I cleaned up the oil inside the stove that had flushed through the over-oiled motor. Oops. The suggested one or two drops is plenty. I've got to lose that more is better mentality.

The motor ran flawlessly for 5-6 years after this with one drop of Mobil 1 every year.

I'm not recommending that you do this, only describing my experience for any interested folks.

Stovensen: I could never figure out how to take these motors apart without destroying them. Or I would have tried to replace the bearings.